[7notes]

Does anyone know if there's a way to replace a knurled head screw on a single screw ligature with a spade head screw? Most single screw ligatures use a screw with a knurled head, the kind Rovner and many others use. There seem to be very few that use a single spade head screw, like the BG Duo, and a Yanagisawa model. The single knurled head screw on the bottom of Otto Link and Francois Louis Ultimate ligatures is at least a wider diameter for a larger contact surface. I have a Marc Jean I and a II, and I prefer the more open sound with the II, but it's not the tightest gripping ligature around, and tightening it enough so that it doesn't slip sometimes requires squeezing the knurled screw head so tightly that it digs into my fingers. I remember asking him about this after I bought it a few years ago, and he was kind enough to send me a couple of replacement knurled head screws in case they turned more easily - that helped a little, but not too much. You'd think the ligature designers' first choice would be a spade head screw, since they're smoother and provide a more secure and comfortable grip.

 

[Hassles]

Best option for you is to find an engineer and request a new screw to be made - it won't be cheap but it should be cheaper and the cost of many ligatures..

 

[swperry1]

I use the same ligature and the screw works perfectly fine. How tight are you trying to crank it down?

 

[theneighbordubh]

I don't have the Marc Jean II so I don't know the thread size. #8x32 maybe? Can probably go to a hardware store and see what size nut fits on it. Ultimately you can find any type of "thumb" screw on the interwebs these days.

 

[derbyhat]

Got a local hardware store you can visit? If they don't have something in the aisles, they might be able to get something, point you to another supply house, or at minimum, get you the dimensions for what you need so you can order something online.

 

[Dr G]

Don’t crank it so tight. Seriously.

Consider reshaping and lubricating the cork if moving the mouthpiece is too difficult.

 

[skeller047]

The screw could be 8-32 or M4, both are common. Since I believe Marc Jean is in Canada, I would assume the latter, but you all know about assumptions...

Regarding the ligature slipping - I would be tempted to glue some very thin cork on the inside of the ligature - you can get a sheet of 1/64" cork (about 0.5mm) from Music Medic. Or perhaps a piece of transparent tape on the inside, just trim the overhang.

I agree with Dr. G - don't crank it down that tight, it's possible to distort or crack the mouthpiece. That's some serious cranking if you are hurting your fingers on a knurled screw.

 

[7notes]

Best option for you is to find an engineer and request a new screw to be made - it won't be cheap but it should be cheaper and the cost of many ligatures..

This may be an option if I can find one to make a one-off.

 

[turf3]

You need a machinist, not an engineer.

Unfortunately for ligature use the thumbscrews need a shoulder and hardware store thumbscrews don't have that. McMaster-Carr have a small selection of flanged thumb screws but it looks like they're all stainless steel (if that matters to you) and limited choice of sizes and shapes.

On the other hand it's pretty simple to take a large knurled head screw and modify it to give you the "spade" shape - you could also machine off most of the head and silver-solder a handle of whatever shape you want.

Make sure you've got clearance to the rest of the ligature, that's probably why the knurled screw was chosen in the first place. If the axis of the screw is too far away from the side of the mouthpiece the ligature material is subjected to bending stresses that will cause it to bend rather than tighten.

 

[7notes]

The screw could be 8-32 or M4, both are common. Since I believe Marc Jean is in Canada, I would assume the latter, but you all know about assumptions...

Regarding the ligature slipping - I would be tempted to glue some very thin cork on the inside of the ligature - you can get a sheet of 1/64" cork (about 0.5mm) from Music Medic. Or perhaps a piece of transparent tape on the inside, just trim the overhang.

I agree with Dr. G - don't crank it down that tight, it's possible to distort or crack the mouthpiece. That's some serious cranking if you are hurting your fingers on a knurled screw.

I've actually already glued very thin cork strips on the inside of the ligature on either side, just below the heavy bars at the top. And that did help. I think what's making it slip is the double whammy of my Saxscape mouthpiece, which is made of slippery Delrin, and Legere reeds, which are slipperier on the top (where the grenadilla wood block in the ligature contacts it) and on the bottom, where the reed lies on the table. The slipping problem happens much less with cane reeds.

I don't think there's any danger of tightening this ligature enough to distort or crack the mouthpiece. The Delrin mpc material is very tough and thick, and it doesn't look as if tightening the ligature could exert enough force on it. And I've got my neck cork sanded down (and lubricated) so that it seals properly but moves only with moderate twisting force.

If I can find a machinist, that would be ideal. And failing that, things are workable as they are. I just wonder why neck tenons (which need comparatively little tightening) use spade head screws. Same with most two-screw ligatures. But so many single screw ligatures, which require relatively more force to grip the screw head, use knurled heads.

 

[7notes]

I should clarify that the piece in question here is actually a nut. The knurled nut head threads onto a long bolt that passes through two thick brass bars at the top of the ligature.

Musique de Marc

 

[turf3]

Well in that case, buy a wing nut and declare victory!

 

[skeller047]

McMaster Carr, as turf3 mentioned, is probably your best bet. You do need to know the thread size... I doubt you could find a spade head on a nut. You could however find a bigger knurled nut . Or a wing nut as turf3 says.

Personally, and I don't mean this to be critical in any way, I find that single screw ligatures just don't work that well. They have the problems you are struggling with, slippage and uneven reed clamping force. I would be tempted to try a D'Addario H ligature on that mouthpiece, or if you can find one, a Rico ligature (the cheap nickel plated ones). They only make them in "standard" sizes now, which won't fit your piece. (Too bad Bonade doesn't make a wider range of styles, I think those are the best.)

 

[7notes]

Well in that case, buy a wing nut and declare victory!

If I can find one I will! 😀

 

[7notes]

McMaster Carr, as turf3 mentioned, is probably your best bet. You do need to know the thread size... I doubt you could find a spade head on a nut. You could however find a bigger knurled nut . Or a wing nut as turf3 says.

Personally, and I don't mean this to be critical in any way, I find that single screw ligatures just don't work that well. They have the problems you are struggling with, slippage and uneven reed clamping force. I would be tempted to try a D'Addario H ligature on that mouthpiece, or if you can find one, a Rico ligature (the cheap nickel plated ones). They only make them in "standard" sizes now, which won't fit your piece. (Too bad Bonade doesn't make a wider range of styles, I think those are the best.)

You'd think it'd be easier to find wingnuts these days...

Thanks, no criticism taken, and in general I prefer two-screw ligatures. I own a Marc Jean model one, his first version with the two screws and the two sticks at the bottom. But I slightly prefer his model II with the single screw. I like the look, and in my perception it plays slightly better. (I know...that's another controversy on its own.) I bought it and can certainly live with it, especially after gluing thin cork strips inside. But I still wonder why the default for all single screw ligatures isn't a spade head bolt, or its nut equivalent, or anything more comfortable to grip than a rough knurled head - which, after all, derives its friction from digging into the skin.

 

[sopsax]

If you're looking for a single-screw lig (with knurled screwhead) that grips securely & is quite well engineered, consider the Vandoren Optimum. Its screwthreads tighten the lig symmetrically from both sides at once, which results in maximum grip with minimal fuss.

My Optimum ligs are shelved just now 'coz I perceive them to dampen reed vibration slightly, & currently I prefer a more open sound. Nonetheless, the Optimum is a great ligature.

 

[sopsax]

I still wonder why the default for all single screw ligatures isn't a spade head bolt, or its nut equivalent, or anything more comfortable to grip than a rough knurled head - which, after all, derives its friction from digging into the skin.

Actually, for folks with finger- or thumb-joint or wrist pain, a knurled head may be easier to turn than a spade head. This is from the horse's mouth. (Despite the fact that horses don't have fingers.)

 

[theneighbordubh]

The best part about the Vandoren Optimum ligs is the screw itself, like the M|O and their leather lig. I think the BG 'jazz' lig has this too, as well as the Keilwerth/GF lig. The M|O is unique as it is the only one without a 'knurled' knob and the screw diameter is smaller. Regardless, one half of the screw is threaded normally and the other is reverse-threaded. Also both sides of the lig have 'nuts'. So each side of the lig tightens as the screw is tightened (also tightening twice as fast as standard ligs). Not sure if anyone gets annoyed by normal ligs where one side closes and the other stays put, causing a little more fidgeting to get it straight.
All that said, I think I prefer the feel/response of the Marc Jean (I). I would like to try the Marc Jean II, but at a gazillion bucks a pop you'd think it would have the dual-threaded screw thingy (there's got to be an official industry term for that but in all my Googling I still haven't found it). But in any case, I'll wait for some used Marc Jean IIs to start floating around and maybe not spend a gazillion.
Oh, per the wing nut solution for the OP, it would probably be easiest to get a wing nut of appropriate size and a spacer. Or maybe solder some wings on the knurled knob!