[JimD]

Got a new mouthpiece, a 10mFan Robusto, and have been working with the ligs I've got and finding slight differences although they all work well enough. So I started looking at other ligs anyway and investigated the Silversteins. I know a pro player who has one and likes it which is sort of a recommendation. The question I have is what is the difference between the A and the T frame, I can't find anything on their site? Is one cheaper or what?

The observation is about their claims that the cryo version is better. I thought the cryo fad had died years ago but here it is again. Cryoing your horn is one thing, that's a lot of metal and if there was anything to it it would make a difference - I always thought this was unlikely if not risible. The Silverstein had two or four metal 'tuners' and cryoing these is meant to be transformative. I can't believe it, please discuss. I would love to hear from someone who will defend it.

 

[GHawk]

I have no experience with Silverstein ligs...I'm not buying one...but, I have a fair amount of experience with 10mfan HR mouthpieces. Nothing works better than a plain, 2-screw metal lig. If you want fancy, a Vandoren Optimum works ok, too. I don't like fabric/string/leather ligs as a general rule. Enjoy your new piece!

 

[sopsax]

Their OmniCap works well for me; the OmniPatch, not so much. Their laughably pretentious marketing lingo is loaded with illogical, insupportable claims -- most likely in an effort to justify their outrageously inflated prices. What else do you need to know?

 

[hakukani]

I play the marc jean lig on all both my hr and metal Robustos. It's just a fancy two screw with wood pieces in it, but it fits remarkably well.

 

[B Flat]

I got a Silverstein in a Mouthpiece trade.
It is good in that it fits some of those strangely sized pieces I have but can’t find a ligature for.
That’s the only reason I keep it.
Like every other ligature I have, it does nothing for the sound.

 

[10mfan]

Their ligatures are very well-made, and have very nice packaging.
They market very aggressively and price themselves at the high-end.
I don’t know the difference between their different ligatures in terms of how they perform, but again they are well-made, and do fit a lot of mouthpieces.

 

[JimD]

Thanks for your replies. I'm sure that I don't need to look any further than what I have, and nothing is going to make me a better player besides practice since the mouthpiece is excellent. I'm getting what I want without wasting money on something destined for the drawer. The funny thing is that, while I know someone who is happy with his Silverstein which is the only reason I know about them, the one thing that puts me off is this cryogenic treatment business, as well as the price. For me it undermines everything else they say about what they can do, it's snake oil stuff. Then again it's not just them, all sorts of respectable, responsible musicians chime in on this about various other ligatures. Another thing that has shocked me is the price that they are asking. I don't mind risking £30 or so but when you get into triple figure it starts to get serious.

 

[dealaddict]

I like the Silverstein on the metal pieces especially the Otto Link STM. It removes the buzz that I don’t know where it come from. It also make the sound darker like any leather or string ligatures. The Rovner may work the same, but based on my memory, the Silverstein is more free blowing, probably because there is less material in contact with the reed.

As for the A or T, I only have the A frame. The tension force are different, the tension in A frame go up pressing the reed, the tension in T frame is sideways with a torsional force. The A frame makes more sense to me from the mechanical stand point. We want a force to press the reed against the mouthpiece.

I agree the price is too much. I bought all of mine used. But they can charge so much because there is no competition. I cannot find a cheaper alternative in the market.

As for the cryogenic thing, I totally don’t believe such microscopic change can cause any difference on such a small piece. Even the material itself cause any difference is a debatable. Although I believe there is. The effect of cryo-treating the saxophone itself should have less difference than using a different material if there is any. Just like many cryo-treated hi-fi wire, I think it is a total nonsense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sopsax]

the one thing that puts me off is this cryogenic treatment business... it undermines everything else they say about what they can do, it's snake oil stuff.

Exactly. Once you catch Silverstein or anybody trying to pull the wool over your eyes, they lose all credibility. It's hard to un-see Pinocchio's nose.

I don't mind risking £30 or so but when you get into triple figure it starts to get serious.

The only ligature I've tried that might actually be worth its three-figure price tag is the Echo Master [formerly Echo Brass] Brilhart replica. I have the alto sax model with ivory plastic reedplate & black screwheads. It's a well-enginered, hefty hunk of brass that grips your reed & hangs on even if you adjust your mouthpiece. The threaded screw shafts are a little long, so the lig can accommodate mouthpieces with a wide outer diameter &/or jumbo-sized reed (like the tenor sax & bass clarinet reeds I use on alto).

Also, each screw can be tightened more or less independently, so the lig will work fine on a mouthpiece that's more conical than cylindrical. I believe it is agnostic with regard to tone; you will still sound like you, for better or worse.

IMHO the Echo Master is a great bit of kit, & not for a minute do I regret spending the extra dough -- even though those weirdly-shaped historically accurate black plastic screwheads can be a tad awkward to turn.

 

[JimD]

Ha, I wish you hadn't reminded me of the Echo Master. It's not even the question of how good they sound just they they are so beautiful. I see that you can get them with B shaped screw heads. I suspect that it costs a small fortune to import them into the UK so I'm probably safe.

 

[whaler]

One fugly ligature. I got one in a mouthpiece deal but I just prefer the good old two screw ligatures.
I'd probably be more likely to get one of these.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/401740860436

 

[JL]

...all sorts of respectable, responsible musicians chime in on this about various other ligatures..

Anyone who spends the $$$ for one of these things is of course going to say it's great; otherwise how are they going to justify paying the price?! No doubt the Silverstein will work (assuming it fits), but it looks kind of 'fiddly' (or 'fugly' as Whalen says) to me.

Bottom line, a 2-screw lig will work just as well on the Robusto (great mpc!) at a fraction of the cost. You can use the money you save on reeds.

 

[timgo75]

Anyone who spends the $$$ for one of these things is of course going to say it's great; otherwise how are they going to justify paying the price?! No doubt the Silverstein will work (assuming it fits), but it looks kind of 'fiddly' (or 'fugly' as Whalen says) to me.

Bottom line, a 2-screw lig will work just as well on the Robusto (great mpc!) at a fraction of the cost. You can use the money you save on reeds.

I have one - works great for me as I have a tendency to stand on metal ligatures (really) and bend them out of shape. And the Silverstein isn't fiddly in the slightest. Definitely worth gluing the grips onto the bottom though and then it's solid. It's quick and easy to put on. It serves me well.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Exactly. Once you catch Silverstein or anybody trying to pull the wool over your eyes, they lose all credibility. It's hard to un-see Pinocchio's nose.

The only ligature I've tried that might actually be worth its three-figure price tag is the Echo Master [formerly Echo Brass] Brilhart replica. I have the alto sax model with ivory plastic reedplate & black screwheads. It's a well-enginered, hefty hunk of brass that grips your reed & hangs on even if you adjust your mouthpiece. The threaded screw shafts are a little long, so the lig can accommodate mouthpieces with a wide outer diameter &/or jumbo-sized reed (like the tenor sax & bass clarinet reeds I use on alto).

Also, each screw can be tightened more or less independently, so the lig will work fine on a mouthpiece that's more conical than cylindrical. I believe it is agnostic with regard to tone; you will still sound like you, for better or worse.

IMHO the Echo Master is a great bit of kit, & not for a minute do I regret spending the extra dough -- even though those weirdly-shaped historically accurate black plastic screwheads can be a tad awkward to turn.

OK, the Echo Master is another overpriced ligature that really does the job very well. What is the job of a ligature? Yes, holding the reed flat and firmly on the mouthpiece. That is my belief as far as ligatures go and until someone shows me some science that ligatures do more then that I'm sticking with it.

Now, I will fess up and say I did go against my own principals regarding ligatures and bought an Echo master. But it was a vanity purchase. And it looks so pretty on my Tonalin ...

 

[JimD]

I fully understand the vanity purchase, I'm tempted by the beauty of the things. Fortunately they are hard to get in the UK.

 

[skeller047]

That's not a horn, that's a time machine! Beautiful!!!!

 

[Reet McVouty]

I fully understand the vanity purchase, I'm tempted by the beauty of the things. Fortunately they are hard to get in the UK.

Oh, but you can order one here. https://www.getasax.com/product-category/echobrass-ligatures/

 

[Reet McVouty]

That's not a horn, that's a time machine! Beautiful!!!!

Thanks man, yeah I'm an old school guy, so this horn takes me back to a time I wanna be ...

 

[Beginnersmind]

I know that the Silverstein ligatures are just hi tech string ligatures...BUT they are SO PRETTY! I want one!

 

[JimD]

Oh, but you can order one here. https://www.getasax.com/product-category/echobrass-ligatures/

They are expensive enough without the cost and aggravation of postage, tax and Customs charges, things start to get really silly then. I know you can't put a price on beauty but they have a pretty good try.