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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I';m in Tokyo, and can buy a new alto Yamaha 82z iii with V1 neck. Price is $2,850. I know it';s a great price, but is anyone aware of better? If I bought 2, what could I sell the 2nd one for in the US.

82z tenor is priced at about $3,100.

Customs duty may add a little, but I';ve heard that sometimes you pay, sometimes you don';t.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
At ishimori now, and the 82z alto is $2500
 

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Re: Should I buy? I’m in Tokyo and...

It sounds like a great deal. The nice thing is, you can try it while you are there and make sure it’s a superb one, without having to buy it online and hoping it is.
 

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If you send it to yourself you may or may not pay the duty, if you are showing up at the airport, you are supposed to declare it ( this is the correct course of action upon arrival) if you don’t and they catch you they may fine you above the duty.

If you are asked whether this was already in your possession when you went to Japan, you shold also be able to prove that it was ( it wasn’t).

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/know-before-you-go/what-expect-when-you-return
 

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Re: Should I buy? I’m in Tokyo and...

No warranty in US for a Japan region sale, but I wonder--if the horn is solid on initial thorough inspection and play, do warranty claims ever occur?

Pretty rare in top-end horns, I'd guess, maybe a spring breaking...
 

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Re: Should I buy? I’m in Tokyo and...

there is nothing in a saxophone which could need be repaired under guarantee that cannot be fixed for way less that the money that OP is saving, which is over $1000
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Appreciate the customs information. I have no problem paying the customs. I’ll declare it, and if I have to pay $100 in duties (or whatever it would be), that’s ok. I’m assuming I’ll have to pay it, so if not then it’s a nice little bonus.

The shop did mention that there’s no warranty outside of Japan. I had the same thought though. Horn played great and it’s a small risk to take.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I';m debating going back this week and picking up a tenor or maybe a Yani A-WO1 or WO2. Not quite as big of a price spread as the 82z, but I liked how the WO1 sounded. My daughter is playing sax and has a student model Cannonball (rental) at the moment. May be a good model for her that would last her a few years through jr high and high school.
 

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Re: Should I buy? I’m in Tokyo and...

only $100 in duties?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
only $100 in duties?
I don’t know for sure how it will pan out. But, from what I’ve found, I think the rate is 4.9% generally. Attaching 2019 tariff schedule page here. There are two rates though: 4.9% as the general rate and 40%. Not sure when the 40% kicks in, but that would definitely be a bummer.

$2,500 x 4.9% = $122.50

That’s what I’m assuming I’ll have to pay.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I also find things like this online, which make me wonder if there’s an exemption as well on some basic level, and the duty only applies above that amount.

So, say the first $800 is free (personal exemption), then 3% on the next $1,000, then the general saxophones rate of 4.9% on anything left. That would be $64.30 in customs tariff. No big deal.

Anyone have actual experience with buying a sax in Japan in recent years that can tell me how it went down?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok, I think that high rate in the second column is just for a limited number of countries non-Normal Trade Relations). Read somewhere that it’s just Cuba and Cambodia. So, I can ignore that 40%.
 

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What about VAT? Importing any goods from outside the EU into Germany would evoke 19 % VAT + 2-4 % customs duty (not shure about the exact rate for saxes). This would add up to roughly 23 %. Tax systems might be different in the US.

As you are planning to go back to Ishimori, a question out of curiosity. Yanagisawa sopranos seem to be discounted compared to outside Japan. However, I have never seen a curved SCW-010 or SCW-020 on any of the shop pages. Are they available there and at what price? I have colleagues going to Japan on a regular basis.... Just a thought :whistle:

Alphorn
 

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Contrary to the perception of most, importing a saxophone from any country for a private person will only cause you to pay VAT in Europe ( In NL 21% VAT varies from 18% to 25% depending on the member state of entry ) there is no duty as such from most countries, VAT is NOT customs duty , if you order by post or courier you will pay the VAT on demonstrated value or assessed (in absence of an invoice) + the shipping charges (which strictly pealing is incorrect because you don’t pay VAT on services but only on goods). then the post or courier will charge you a “ handing through customs” fee.

The situation in the US is radically different (see link above there there is the detailed description). The US has NO VAT.

In Europe, like in the States, it is illegal to carry a saxophone with you and not to declare or falsely declare that it is yours, you should keep the purchase document and be taxed accordingly. If you do it, you may be lucky but if you are not they stop you and may confiscate the instrument if you fail to pay what they request you to pay and or prove how much you paid ( they can and will independently assess it if you don’t have a document or if it is blatantly incorrect or plausible ). If you travel with your own instrument you should, before you depart, get a custom declaration (similar provisions exist in te States) so that when you return nobody can claim that it wasn’t yours in the first place, it is called a temporary export.

https://business.gov.nl/regulation/temporary-import-export/


[I]ATA carnet for temporary export
This information is provided by Netherlands Enterprise Agency, RVO
In order to limit delays and paperwork at the border in the event of a temporary export, many countries outside the EU allow you to use an ATA carnet. In the Netherlands, you can obtain this international customs document from ATA Nederland. An ATA carnet can be used for the temporary export of:

samples and advertising material;
exhibition material;
tools for performing maintenance, repairs and service work;
photographic, video and film material, musical instruments, stage and theatre props.
Once the goods have been exported, they must not undergo any changes. If you export goods temporarily outside the EU for treatment (outward processing) you will need authorisation to do so.

You validate the carnet in the customs district in which you are based. Having used the carnet, you must return it by registered post to the Chamber of Commerce: KVK, Afdeling Carnets, PO Box 2852, 1000 CW Amsterdam. If you do not return the ATA carnet, the Chamber of Commerce send you a reminder to do so.
[/I]






General taxation is way higher in Europe that the US but then again we are generally provided with a lot more services that the US citizens are comfortable with.


THESE are the full out (since obviously a link wasn’t enough to clarify) of the US rules.

“...
Complete a paper form that may be obtained at the port of entry or on the flight or cruise.
Complete the online form at a Global Entry kiosk. (Only preapproved Global Entry members are allowed to use these kiosks.)
Complete the online form at an Automated Passport Control kiosk.
Keeping all your purchase receipts handy in an envelope in your carry-on bag will ease this process. If warranted, the CBP officer will calculate the duties to pay on your newly acquired goods.

Paying Duties
Personal exemptions that do not require the traveler to pay duty will be $200, $800 or $1600 depending on the countries you visited.

The duty-free exemptions ($200, $800, or $1600) apply if:

The items are for your personal or household use or intended to be given as gifts.
Merchandise is in your possession, that is, it accompanies you when you return to the United States. Items to be sent later may not be included in your duty-free exemption. (Exceptions apply for goods sent from Guam or the U.S. Virgin Islands.)
Merchandise is declared to CBP. If you do not declare something that should have been declared, you risk forfeiting the item. If in doubt, declare it.
You are returning from an overseas stay of at least 48 hours. This time limit does not apply if you are returning from Mexico or from the U.S. Virgin Islands.
You have not used all of your exemption allowance, or used any part of it, in the past 30 days. For example, if you go to England and bring back $150 worth of items, you must wait another 30 days before you are allowed another exemption.
The items are not prohibited or restricted as discussed in the section on Prohibited and Restricted Items. Before departing on your trip, check the latest information for the full list of prohibited and restricted items on the U.S. Department of the Treasury Cuba Sanctions website, as well as other related government resources.
Duty free exemption limits depend on the country or countries you visit and the length of stay. Learn which rates apply to the goods your purchase on your trip - call the CBP attaché at the country's U.S. embassy.

Your CBP Interview
To keep our borders secure and our nation safe, CBP must inspect everyone who arrives at a U.S. port of entry. The CBP officers are authorized to ask you questions about your trip and your personal background, including:

Your citizenship
The nature of your trip
Anything you are bringing back to the United States that you did not have when you left.
Officers have legal authority to search you, your baggage or your vehicle. If asked to, place your opened baggage on the exam station. After the exam, you will be asked to repack and close your baggage.

CBP pledges to treat you courteously and professionally. If at any point you are unhappy with your treatment, ask to speak to a CBP supervisor. You may also call the CBP INFO Center at 877-227-5511. If calling within the United States, call 202-325-8000 or go to www.cbp.gov and click on Questions/Comments....."
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What about VAT? Importing any goods from outside the EU into Germany would evoke 19 % VAT + 2-4 % customs duty (not shure about the exact rate for saxes). This would add up to roughly 23 %. Tax systems might be different in the US.

As you are planning to go back to Ishimori, a question out of curiosity. Yanagisawa sopranos seem to be discounted compared to outside Japan. However, I have never seen a curved SCW-010 or SCW-020 on any of the shop pages. Are they available there and at what price? I have colleagues going to Japan on a regular basis.... Just a thought


Alphorn

Not sure about Ishimori, but I looked at several instruments at Shimokura. Looking at their site, they have the Yani Sopranos (looks like a curved neck) for about $3,400 USD and $4,100 respectively.

http://www.shimokura-gakki.com/english/catalog/YANAGISAWA_960.html?tr=en


As for VAT, I’m in the US, and we don’t have it. On imports, we just pay customs tariff.
 

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No VAT in US and Yanagisawa or Selmer saxes are still much more expensive than in EU? Your wholesalers are making big money!

I have seen the page of shimokura-gakki before. Those are the straight sopranos with or without curved neck. The SCW series are the fully curved alto like versions. I have not seen those in any of the Japanese online shops.

Alphorn
 

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Very cool to buy an instrument in the country it was manufactured, after you have played it, and at a pretty healthy discount!

If price were the principle consideration in buying a new Selmer Paris, Yanagisawa or Yamaha, check out web orders to the US from Matthiew's Muziek in the NL (both web site and Reverb store). I saved $1,900 on a Yamaha tenor and $40 on a Selmer tenor flight case (both compared to best discount US dealer price) in the past two months, received them superbly packed in outstanding condition in 8 calendar days, and was charged no customs duty by Miami port of entry (which I understand is generally hit-or-miss, mostly miss) and as a lagniappe no internet sales tax is collected in FL (although more and more US states do tax on delivery). And Matthiew's is a real B&M store with knowledgable, helpful and responsive staff and an excellent technician.
 
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