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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So we got in our first Keilwerth Shadow Bari sax today. (pictures available on our Keilwerth page at http://www.kesslermusic.com/html/keilwerth.htm)

Overall, great PLAYING horn. However, I would not call this a very durable horn. The Nickel-Silver is really quite thin on the bell. You can very easily get the bell tube to flex.

The ergonomics arent our favorite either. The grip is definately designed to have you wearing a neck strap with the horn (granted you should anyways). What I mean by this is that if you are holding the horn's weight in your hands, actually operating the mechanism smoothly is awkward at best. However, with the weight of the horn properly supported elsewhere, it isnt that bad. I just like the ergonomics of a Yanagisawa better.

I am still somewhat surprised that Keilwerth doesnt use its G# lifting mechanism on these. I understand that it would not be as simple as on the tenor and alto but that is a feature that I figured they would get working on the Bari.

Bell is braced properly with a good solid 3 point brace.

The case is a Winter case that overall is decent. It isnt great. The case does have a flaw in that there is too much "shift" room where the horn can travel along its length by a good 1.5 - 2 inches. This creates a problem with the bell lip slamming into the case and potentially bending the lip. However, if properly blocked, the bell is supported quite well with the bell lip not actually touching the case anywhere.

Overall, great playing bari, but at a substantially high price.
 

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My wife and I have a deal;when we are married 50 years I can get a black nickel Keilwerth down to low Bb. I am 39 now,I'll be 74 when we are married 50 years. I have a long wait. Seriously though I love my Selmer Super Action 80 series I baritone but since baritone is my favorite sax I would eventually would like a low Bb Keilwerth. A low Bb (yes I know you have a low A model)shadow is tempting but I'll wait or I won't make it to my 15th anniversary in july!!!!LOL
 

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(gulp):shock:
 

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Dave, is the neck also nickle silver?
I am assuming it is, but
the demo horn at the Muzikmesse had a brass neck (they hadn"t been able to tool up to make a nickle silver neck at the time of the trade show) and the intonation was pretty wonky on it.

Assuming it is a nickle silver neck, how is the intonation?

Also you mention the bell is thin..is it thinner than say, some Taiwanese bari bells?

Thanks!
 

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Shadow Bari

Randall said:
(gulp):shock:
Yup!!! If I only had a regular bari gig!! Now if they would make a soprano?
 

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We bari players finally get a deluxe model and it is let down by substandard build quality. Hopefully the thin bell is because of the newness of the model and will improve in later baritones.
 

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I can't imagine needing more out of a bari than the regular black nickel model offers. It's freakin' great instrument. I wish I wasn't financially challenged and could afford another one.
 

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Just read this, but on the Jk website that Kessler links to, in the Shadow bari description it says that the Shadow bari does have the G# lifting mechanism on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Randall said:
Dave, is the neck also nickle silver?
I am assuming it is, but
the demo horn at the Muzikmesse had a brass neck (they hadn"t been able to tool up to make a nickle silver neck at the time of the trade show) and the intonation was pretty wonky on it.

Assuming it is a nickle silver neck, how is the intonation?

Also you mention the bell is thin..is it thinner than say, some Taiwanese bari bells?

Thanks!
Yes, the neck is nickel silver as well. Intonation was not a problem on the horn. Obviously no horn is truly perfect, but there wasnt anything that stuck out bad to us. We didnt put it on a tuner but it seemed fine.

I dont think the bell is thinner then what Keilwerth normally does, its just that combined with the nickel silver alloy, this is where the weakness comes in. It flexes at the same level of say a Conn 8D french horn bell (also nickel silver).

as for the G# lifter, their website does claim it does... however their photo on their website doesnt have one, and this horn I received doesnt have one (as you can see in my photos).
 

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I actually like the Winter cases...I have two of them (for my Low A King Tempo and my Yani B991). I line them with the appropriate thickness of sewn layers of synthetic chamois cloth to provide support. They are light and strong cases if custom fitted to the horn. I got tired of carrying the Yani case and had used the Winter for my King Tempo for some time.
 

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yosef, I too like the Winter cases and used them for some years.
Problem with them is the latches can pull out of the plastic shell as they are attached with metal "teeth" that bite into the shell.
 

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One of the ones that I have I got cheap cause one of the hinges had pulled out. I repaired it and reset the latches with real hardware and reinforced the mount points with carbon fibre reinforced epoxy. The newer one that I have is holding out fine, but I do watch it. They are a great design, though...I'd love to see a quality upgrade....very light and compact with sufficient strength for local hauling where I maintain control of my horn.
 

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The Shadows are definitely beautiful horns. It was the first tenor I tried. I actually bought one, because I was able to get it for an unreasonably good price from WWBW. I ordered it because I liked the unique sound of the SX90R. Plus, I had just seen Don Braden and he was playing one.;) It had a great sound, but the brightness made it unusable for quartet or wind ensemble. Plus, it had some wierd issues in the bell keys that my tech couldn't fix. So, it went back. It would have been expensive replacing those pretty black pads, anyway. Or at least that's what I told myself when I cried myself to sleep for the next month.:(

--JT
 

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Dave,
I remember Steve mentioning you were going to get one in. Do you still have the horn in the store, or was this ordered for someone? I should bring my SX90 down to compare the two for s***s and giggles... I find it hard to believe there is a flexing issue given my SX90 is built like a freakin' tank (almost to a fault).

Holy crap these are expensive... You have got to love the arbitrary retail prices they come up with for these... Actually all major brands these days. This horn wins though... Retail: $19,074!!!

I can see why there is no G# lifting mechanism though... Given the spacing between the keys, it's probably not feasible. The weight of the whole mechanism would probably make it too hard for the key to operate at all. I find this doesn't really help much anyway on my alto...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Adam said:
Dave,
I remember Steve mentioning you were going to get one in. Do you still have the horn in the store, or was this ordered for someone? I should bring my SX90 down to compare the two for s***s and giggles... I find it hard to believe there is a flexing issue given my SX90 is built like a freakin' tank (almost to a fault).

Holy crap these are expensive... You have got to love the arbitrary retail prices they come up with for these... Actually all major brands these days. This horn wins though... Retail: $19,074!!!

I can see why there is no G# lifting mechanism though... Given the spacing between the keys, it's probably not feasible. The weight of the whole mechanism would probably make it too hard for the key to operate at all. I find this doesn't really help much anyway on my alto...
Yes I do have it here. Alan Lawson actually was just in playing it.

The retails ARE absurd. I actually recommended to Sonare just doing away with Retails all together on the pro Keilwerth models as they dont mean anything anymore.

Yes, please come in and give it a honk. It is not here for anyone.
 

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I'll swing by in the next day or two if I can find a reed that doesn't sound like complete trash (which hasn't been going well, I've been through 30-35 in the past few days with nothing that will play for more than 15 minutes...). I've been getting through the show the past few nights on a fibracell because it sounds better than any reed I can find... Sad state of affairs... No point in coming over until I can find something that sounds normal...
 
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