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Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the C-Me
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now then, all you Keilwerth experts, I've acquired a very neglected 'Senator' tenor that I'm about to strip and (hopefully) fix - which has some quality features not unlike my Keilwerth tenor. I've posted some pics (before I start) and I'd appreciate any comments. They are at -

http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/saxophones/senator.htm

- and when you're bored with that, have a look at the (solitary, at the moment) picture of my Toneking Exclusiv at -

http://www.dorsetdriftwood.btinternet.co.uk/saxophones/keilwerth-tenor.htm

Regards, Alan.

P.S. I know the 'Senator' name has come up in the past on this forum, and 'sarge' states that (quote) " Max Keilwerth and Richard Keilwerth (Graslitz) made saxes under the names Senator, Weltklang and Hohner" - I'd still appreciate any comments, as I'm not entirely convinced that this may be the same 'Senator' - but I hope it is !
 

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Forum Contributor 2007 Distinguished SOTW Member
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I am not a keilwerth expert although a couple have passed through my hands and don't know a whole lot about hohner saxes other than the pictures I have seen of the hohner president. But in their guitar line they had a top of the line president and a second model with slightly less features called a senator. perhaps they extended this line of thinking to the saxes? The one picture above looks like maybe a straight up selmer copy? Looks pretty good with, like you said, some nice features. Does it play enough to tell how the intonation and overall construction quality is?
 

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It is tough to tell from those pictures, but this horn does not appear to have the distinctive 'beveled' posts that all Keilwerth horns I have seen use. Also, I have not seen the hinged/rocking low Bb key on any Keilwerths before the Conn DJH horns in ~1980. (I have one of these altos)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Spider - thanks for comments, yes. it does look (in places) like a Selmer copy, and has a lot of little 'features, as opposed to a very spartan finish. I've seen another forum comment on Senator that (quote) "I picked up a 'Senator' tenor saxaphone and it is a spitting image of the Selmer Mark VI." on the old saxontheweb forum.

I doesn't play at all until I get stuck into fixing it - but what can you expect for $51 ? With all the neglect it's had, the perceived quality of build has left it only (mostly) 'cosmetically challenged'

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Shmuelyosef - I'll check the posts etc. on my 'real' Keilwerth for comparison, I really ought to do a similar spread of decent photo's for that one. This 'Senator' has a whole lot of features that I've seen on various other saxes - e.g. the 'rocking' octave mechanism is very reminiscent of Holton in the 50/60's. Maybe it's just a good Japanese copy, with a 00xxx serial number it's intriguing.

Regards, Alan.
 

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Another non-Keilwerth feature of this Senator is that the stack posts are mounted on ribs. If I'm not mistaken, JKs have never used ribbing. Are there any marks on the horn like the lyre logo that Yanagisawa used? No "Made in Japan" anywhere (like the underside of a palm-key touch)?
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the C-Me
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
wind_mill - thanks, the mystery is solved. Altho' Senator is the name of a Keilwerth stencil, this is not that Senator, different sax.

As I'm a Martin & Buescher addict (apart from having a JK Toneking tenor...) I can probably be forgiven for not recognising a Selmer MkVI clone.

I had my suspicions, and then I found an 'exploded' drawing of a MkVI - and the mechanisms match exactly. It is a very well engineered Japanese clone - still good ebay value at $51, and probably a good blower when/if it ever gets my full attantion.

Thanks, Alan.
 

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This is a D and J stencil-http://bassic-sax.info/version5/vintage-saxes/european-made-saxes/dorfler-jorka/dj-stencil-galleries/senator
 

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I have overhauled a Senator that had the Keilwerth stencil stamp on it. Played very nice but the ergonomics was a bit uncomfortable and clunky. Sold it for approx 1400 to a vintage sax enthusiast
 
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