[mrsaxpunk]

I've recently acquired a Selmer Serie III Tenor and I've noticed something very different about the keys, between this sax and my Yamaha 82Z. If you press just the G key on the Selmer, it holds down the Bb bis key as well, but on the Yamaha the Bb bis key stays open. I use just the G key, with palm B and C, for some altissimo notes. So when I'm playing these altissimo notes, the bis is open on the Yamaha and closed on the Selmer. Why is this? You'd think it would make a big difference, but it doesn't seem to.

 

[mrsaxpunk]

This is not the case with altos. Both Selmer and Yamaha altos leave the Bb bis key open.

 

[kymarto]

Altissimos depend on a lot of things: if a key is not at a critical nodal point for a given note, it doesn't really matter if it is open or closed--but it might make a big difference for another note.

 

[Dave Dolson]

My Ref 54 alto leaves the bisBb open when only the G is pressed closed. DAVE

 

[mrsaxpunk]

Any techs know why this is?

 

[mrsaxpunk]

I thought I'd get a good few replys about this. It has got me really intrigued.

 

[Chris Peryagh]

Yamaha have moved the LH main action fingerbuttons slightly lower down the instrument on their YTS-23/25/275/32/475/52/62/62II/82Z/875/875EX tenors so LH3 falls in between two pad cups to make it completely independent instead of having it running over the top of the bis key pad cup which lowers but shouldn't fully close it - the early Yamaha tenors (YTS-21/61) had the LH fingerbuttons in the Selmer position so LH3 lowered the bis key.

Yamaha tenors also have longer palm keys and the front F key touch has been repositioned to accommodate this. The only other tenors I can think of that have the LH fingerbuttons in a similar position as Yamahas so LH3 is completely independent are the old Selmer Adolphes and Buffet S1 tenors. There may be others.

You'll notice Selmer SA80II baris have the RH fingerbuttons moved lower down the instrument so RH3 doesn't lower (but not fully close) the RH2 pad cup - Yamaha baris still have the RH3 fingerbutton key arm running over the RH2 pad cup like MkVI and Yanagisawa baris (and others).

 

[mrsaxpunk]

Thanks for the reply Chris, very interesting. Are you sure that the bis key shouldn't fully close on the Selmer? If not, do you know why not? It doesn't seem to make much difference.

 

[DukeCity]

... You'd think it would make a big difference, but it doesn't seem to.

I think the more important impact of holding the G key down on some altissimo notes is that it means you are using the octave vent on the body of the horn instead of the neck vent.

 

[Chris Peryagh]

If the LH3 key fully closes the bis key (as LH2 does), there's the increased danger of the LH3 pad not closing if the touchpiece arm gets bent so having the gap safeguards that happening (but there should still be some felt glued to the underside to prevent clattering). It's not important for the LH3 key to close the bis key fully as it doesn't do that on any other sizes of saxes, so it should be set up so LH3 leaves the bis key pad open, even if it's only slightly (but that can be increased by bending the LH3 key to gain more venting of the bis key).

On some altissimo fingerings where you're holding LH3 down to keep the lower 8ve vent open (and no RH main action keys are closed), it can interfere with the venting if the bis key is fully closed by LH3.