[LateNiteSax]

Rollins, Stitt, Dexter Gordon, Flip Phillips, Mobley, Joe Henderson, Brecker, Wayne, Steve Grossman, Pharoh, Coltrane, Getz, Hawk, Bean, Gonsalves, Ventura, Jaws, Benny Golson, Stitt, Cohn, Simms, Lenny Picket, Rusty Bryant, Redman JR and Sr., Garzone, Potter, Turrentine, Gonz, Eddie Harris, Lovano and many incredible players I know personally.... all play Selmer tenors. Some greats play Kings and Conns.

Buffet anyone? (Crickets, swamp noises)

There is a reason for this vast discrepancy, no? These iconoclasts are not interested in doing what is popular, they were/are true artists seeking pure self expression through their horns. Please insert your 2 cents at this time. Thank you.

 

[old git]

Other than the usual Selmer snobbery, may I respectfully point out that there is nothing 'Irish' about Generation Penny Whistles, they are produced in mainland Britain. Amongst the ITM gang, they are rated as not too good, in fact one of my life's ambitions is to find a decent one.

 

[bfoster64]

Albert Ayler played an SDA tenor.

Don Byas played a Dolnet tenor.

Cannonball Adderly played a King alto.

Phil Woods plays Yamaha.

Ernie Watts and Kirk Whalum play Keilwerth, so did Grover Washington.

Selmer has been dominant but many great players play or have played other horns.

And cost is also a factor to many people. I'd rather play my SDA tenor than spend $5,000 on a Mark VI.

 

[Dr G]

These iconoclasts are not interested in doing what is popular, they were/are true artists seeking pure self expression through their horns. Please insert your 2 cents at this time. Thank you.

Are these people "icons" or "iconoclasts"? Hmmm, maybe both?

Regardless, it's not about the brand name. They played what was readily available.

 

[Grumps]

VI tenors are just great all around horns. There's no denying that. Once you pick one up, it's clear. I may prefer different flavors, but I can't deny the greatness of the VI tenor. There may be snobbery involved, but it's warranted. Those that have them know their place.

 

[tjontheroad]

Rollins, Stitt, Dexter Gordon, Flip Phillips, Mobley, Joe Henderson, Brecker, Wayne, Steve Grossman, Pharoh, Coltrane, Getz, Hawk, Bean, Gonsalves, Ventura, Jaws, Benny Golson, Stitt, Cohn, Simms, Lenny Picket, Rusty Bryant, Redman JR and Sr., Garzone, Potter, Turrentine, Gonz, Eddie Harris, Lovano and many incredible players I know personally.... all play Selmer tenors. Some greats play Kings and Conns.

Buffet anyone? (Crickets, swamp noises)

There is a reason for this vast discrepancy, no? These iconoclasts are not interested in doing what is popular, they were/are true artists seeking pure self expression through their horns. Please insert your 2 cents at this time. Thank you.

I be beating a dead horse if I'd answer this question. So, I ask one. How do you know if any of the players mentioned above ever even tried a Buffet?

 

[Yellowhorn]

The word is Selmeritis!

Latenitesax,

Look at this ad and see who played Buffet horns!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1967-John-Coltr...yZ108747QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As for me, I have gone for a Buffet rather than paying a lot of money to cure Selmeritis!

 

[Dr G]

As for me, I have gone for a Buffet rather than paying a lot of money to cure Selmeritis!

But what if you were buying new horns at the time and they were similarly priced?

 

[Yellowhorn]

The answer, my friend, is lying in your signature!

 

[LateNiteSax]

Latenitesax,

Look at this ad and see who played Buffet horns!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1967-John-Coltr...yZ108747QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As for me, I have gone for a Buffet rather than paying a lot of money to cure Selmeritis!

Yellowhorn, you are a journalist, right? So you know about paid endorsments. Thats a nice advertisment, but these guys were absolutely playing their Selmers in real life. Pharoh Sanders, Trane, Shepp all Selmers. I have pics of Ayler on a Mk Vl with Link STM. They could play any horn they want. As far as Selmer Mk Vl's being great, they are too inconsistent to make a blanket statement like that. A lot of the tenors are humdrum, a few are beyond miserable. Many are very nice. I have horns that feel comfortable on and that are good resposnive instruments. I am not putting down Buffets or any other brand, just making the observation and learning with everybody. Lets face it, when 90%+ of the greatest tenor sax giants are using Selmers, its saying something. On that note, I'm sure Trane would have sounded like Trane on a Buffet or whatever. I hope everyone gets a nice sax and makes beautiful music for our troubled planet.

 

[Dr G]

The answer, my friend, is lying in your signature!

Then the reason that so many more play Selmers must mean that the Selmer is the better horn. That's why I play them - even when they cost more.

 

[madav]

I was always told that in the UK, back in the '60's, that Buffet actually cost more than Selmer, maybe something to do with a better reputation with the build quality associated with their other woodwinds..

 

[whaler]

And cost is also a factor to many people. I'd rather play my SDA tenor than spend $5,000 on a Mark VI.

When you are a professional, it is not the cost, it is the result you need. You can't go out and race your Ford Pinto with the Ferraris.

 

[Yellowhorn]

Latenitesax -

You are right that, when it comes to endorsement, 'Trane, Schepp, Sanders, and the like, were PROMISCUOUS!

That has been, is, and will always be the case. James Carter, for instance, appears on both Rampone & Cazzani's and P. Mauriat's catalogues.

Dr G -

Your argument is flawed: For you, the 6 is a better horn because you like its tone. But, if someone does not like it, then s/he will think the 6 is a bad (and thus expensive) horn.

This is the law of relativity!

Thus, it is fine to like a horn made by a certain brand. But to worship it and to say it is the BEST horn is just biased, ignorant, or offensive.

So, don't let your Selmeritis make you look bad when you are a good man, my friend.

 

[tjontheroad]

This whole thread is stupid. Who cares what whoever plays/ed? I care about what I play and what I have to do to make people take note.

Buffet and Selmers are both great horns. I own both and I'm out to prove it

 

[Dr G]

Dr G -

Your argument is flawed: For you, the 6 is a better horn because you like its tone. But, if someone does not like it, then s/he will think the 6 is a bad (and thus expensive) horn.

This is the law of relativity!

Thus, it is fine to like a horn made by a certain brand. But to worship it and to say it is the BEST horn is just biased, ignorant, or offensive.

So, don't let your Selmeritis make you look bad when you are a good man, my friend.

y',

That is ignorant. You asked why so many are played and I respond that it's a preference. You tell me that I have Selmeritis, that I am biased because I like its tone - it's a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. Upon what SHOULD it be judged if not for its ability to convey MUSIC?

If someone doesn't share my preference for its tone and therefore consider it BAD, then they are ignorant. Just because I don't like something, doesn't make it bad. I respect your right to your own preferences.

Am I upset that you call me biased, ignorant, and offensive? Not at all. Accuse me of worshipping a saxophone? That is sublime. I worship NOTHING. A saxophone is a tool. If I prefer a Selmer and you don't then look the other way when I play my instrument.

You, my "friend", are on my Ignore list. Don't bother replying to me.

 

[AmSaxPlayer]

As both an SDA and Mark VI tenor owner, I'll say that they're both absolutely terrific horns.

They're so closely associated because of the time period and location of their production; the problem is they're very different horns, similar to how modern Keilwerths and Selmers are not contrasted as better or worse, but most often as just different.

 

[rispoli]

They're so closely associated because of the time period and location of their production; the problem is they're very different horns, similar to how modern Keilwerths and Selmers are not contrasted as better or worse, but most often as just different.

This was also my impression. The association of the 2 lines happens just because they are both french models from the same period but they don't sound nor play nearly alike, just as B&S ad Keilwerths don't. When I briefly had both I remember the difference in sound was clear also to the untrained ears of some of my friends.
And, as Dr G said, if price wasn't an issue I doubt many would choose a Buffet over a Selmer of the same period. Also in a blind test.

 

[stevesklar]

also, weren't there much more Selmers manufactuered than Buffets ?? thus more readily available ???

and ergonomics/keywork, which Selmer was known for vs Buffet ??

 

[Yellowhorn]

Dr G -

It is a free world out there!

Peace!

P.S. It is not a good idea being thin-skinned on this forum. It takes a lot of energy to be angry over something like this. Use it to play horns or something else that is useful!