[Anya62597]

This year I am a freshman in high school, and my band director/ private teacher (the same person) suggested that I invest in a new instrument. He suggested either a Selmer Paris Reference 74 or the Keilwerth SX90r Shadow. Both seem like incredible horns to me, and I need help deciding.
Also, I am looking into jazz mouthpieces. I know this question has been asked a million times, but which is better: metal or ebonite?

P.S. Sorry for the long post!

 

[Tony5175]

Long posts? I seen ones 10x longer. As for the saxes, there is only one was to find out. Try them both out a a local music store or something and decide which one YOU like better. Good luck.

 

[markpoirier]

Your teacher is very free with your cash. Those are both quite expensive. Did he make any other suggestions?
Selmer and Keilwerth are as far apart as any modern horns of similar quality level.

 

[Tony5175]

Your teacher is very free with your cash. Those are both quite expensive. Did he make any other suggestions?
Selmer and Keilwerth are as far apart as any modern horns of similar quality level.

That's what I was thinking! If you have the money, great. If you don't maybe you could try a Yamaha 82Z or Yani 991 or 992. Not to mention good Taiwanese saxes out there.

 

[Dave Dolson]

It is Reference 54, not 74. Any of the top-end instruments are going to cost you some serious money. Include Yanagisawa if you are considering saxophones of the caliber of a Ref 54, Custom Z, or JK.

You'll get a lot of disagreement on mouthpieces - I don't think the material matters. It is a combination of tip openings, baffle design, chamber size and design that matters - and all of that depends on your personal embouchure. You and i could play the same piece with the same reed (yuk!) and reach a totally different conclusion. DAVE

 

[Phil1]

Deleted

 

[Phil1]

Deleted

 

[Pete Thomas]

This year I am a freshman in high school, and my band director/ private teacher (the same person) suggested that I invest in a new instrument. He suggested either a Selmer Paris Reference 74 or the Keilwerth SX90r Shadow. Both seem like incredible horns to me, and I need help deciding.

You have to try them. Both are good (if overpriced compared with other saxophones available these days). I can however understand the diplomacy of getting a horn that your teacher approves of. If you are unable to make your own decision, then maybe get your teacher to suggest one or the other, I would not go on recommendations from a whole forum full of people, as we usually like what is best for us. It is subjective so there is no way to say that one is better than the other for someone else.

My own opinion would favour the Selmer, but I wouldn't buy one for myself.

I hope your teacher is on the level, but I also find it odd that a teacher would narrow a recommendation down to something so expensive. Price does not always equate to quality, especially these days. I hesitate to say this, but it is worth knowing whether the teacher might be getting a commission on sales form a local store. Some of them do and that can unfortunately influence their recommendations. I'm not saying that is what is happening in this case and I sincerely hope not, just making you aware of the possibility

Also, I am looking into jazz mouthpieces. I know this question has been asked a million times, but which is better: metal or ebonite?

Yes.

In other words, there is no real answer to that question, you would need to be more specific about the make, not what the mouthpiece is made of.

But again, the choice of what is best has to be your choice, not mine or anybody else's apart from you, and your teacher who knows your playing, your playing level and requirements.

 

[piwikiwi]

Why these two horns? It's a bit weird since they are exactly the opposite of each other. The keilwerth is very free blowing and the reference 54 is very focused. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them but they are really expensive. I paid 3800 euros (5000 dollar) for my ref 54 tenor and it was a used horn(it was still brand new).

 

[jlima]

I have owned a Shadow alto and I own a Selmer Reference alto. For jazz, I would pick this particular Selmer model, I think it's an incredible horn. The Shadow is also an excellent horn, by the way, but probably better for other styles.
Don't listen too much to people who put down a horn JUST because it's expensive. In my experience, most of the times, the more expensive horns and mouthpieces were in fact the best ones. There are exceptions, but this is the general trend.
As to the mouthpiece, that is an even more personal choice than the horn. Material doesn't matter, it will depend on how comfortable it feels for you but there is no actual impact of material on the sound. If you are just starting out, and if we're talking about alto here, I would recommend a Meyer. But I wouldn't buy a stock one, I would put in a little more cash (not much more) and order a custom Meyer from Phil Engleman (Phil-tone). Two other excellent possibilities are the Aaron Drake NY Jazz mouthpiece or the Mouthpiece Cafe Brothers New York model. These are a little more expensive than the Meyer but well worth the investment.
Of course, other people will suggest other mouthpieces and you will end up confused like I did when I started playing sax and asking for advice.
I actually have a Phil-tone Custom Meyer for sale but this is not the purpose of this post, I don't want to sound like I'm taking the opportunity to push it on you.
Above all, good luck!

 

[Pete Thomas]

I've seen this many times where someone is asking about specific choices and some at this site attempt to redirect the OP to what they feel is the best value or even the best horn.

The question is about two specific brands.

If only the ones who attempt to redirect could imagine if someone tries to sway them away from their favorite brand of sax.

Maybe, just maybe they would perceive how it feels. And they may resent it.

I've often had replies such as this, I've never resented it when people are trying to be helpful with alternative suggestions, sometimes I've found it useful, especially when people are pointing out cheaper and better alternatives

Of course, other people will suggest other mouthpieces and you will end up confused like I did when I started playing sax and asking for advice.

Yes, this is often what happens when you ask advice about things that are very subjective.

That's why I often suggest, if someone has a teacher, they ask the teacher's advice, less confusing than loads of different advice from strangers, however expert or well meaning.

 

[hgiles]

Yeah, that's an awful lot of cash for something you're not sure about. In the meantime, there are a lot of less spendy options that really are just as good or better. As far as mouthpieces go, it's always a good idea to have a Meyer HR 5M/6M on hand and a 7* Link for tenor.

BTW, are you asking about altos or tenors?

 

[saxguy007]

Wow. Memory lane. I was exactly at the same point as the OP, in 9th grade, when I broached the same subject with my band director. My folks were renting a Conn tenor sax at the time. I don't recall that my band director was a saxophonist per se. He suggested either "Selmer or Couff" (I remember he wrote two f's on the slip of paper). So, we went to the music store, and came out with a Couf Superba II, which was my main axe for 17 years, not knowing any better, since I wasn't big into exploring other gear.

So, it may be that your teacher is just giving you two sure-fire options. IMO you won't get an inferior quality horn. One can't expect a band teacher, even one skilled enough on a sax to at least teach it privately, to know about Cannonballs or Mauriats, and certainly not Barone/Macsax/TKmelody/etc.

I agree with others, though, that it is surprising that he didn't suggest you also look at Yamaha and Yanigisawa.

I suggest you buy a used sax that has been tweaked to good playability (seal) by a store's repair facility, to save a ton of money.

 

[Pete Thomas]

So, it may be that your teacher is just giving you two sure-fire options. IMO you won't get an inferior quality horn. One can't expect a band teacher, even one skilled enough on a sax to at least teach it privately, to know about Cannonballs or Mauriats, and certainly not Barone/Macsax/TKmelody/etc.

This could be exactly the issue here. I agree with piwikiwi, it's odd to choose such different horns as a recommendation for one particular player.

I know plenty of good private teachers who know very little about the current saxophone market, so they play safe and recommend the very expensive horns because they are unaware of the alternatives that can save a student a lot of money and are just as good. We don't know that's the case here, but it's worth pointing out I think.

 

[jlima]

You guys seem more concerned to save Anya's money than her. Maybe for her parents money is not an issue, maybe they just want her to have the best saxophone possible. And maybe the teacher knows this. And if that is so, why not just let her have an excellent saxophone and feel the pleasure of learning music at the highest quality level possible from day one?

 

[piwikiwi]

You guys seem more concerned to save Anya's money than her. Maybe for her parents money is not an issue, maybe they just want her to have the best saxophone possible. And maybe the teacher knows this. And if that is so, why not just let her have an excellent saxophone and feel the pleasure of learning music at the highest quality level possible from day one?

Well you can´t go wrong with these two horns. So it´s a safe choice anyway. I encourage you to try them both because it's impossible to tell which one is better then the other, they are equally good but it's a matter of preference

 

[Phil1]

Deleted.

 

[Dr G]

You seem wound a lil' tight today. Maybe before you commit a YAGE, you could apologize for going off on Dave. He commented that there exists no Reference 74 - he's right. Just as you assert, the designation is Model 74/Reference 54.

Be well.

The original post is:

" my band director/ private teacher (the same person) suggested that I invest in a new instrument. He suggested either a Selmer Paris Reference 74 or the Keilwerth SX90r Shadow. "

Oh yeah the only reason I got involved in this post is because Anya was advised that there is no Selmer Paris model 74.
No offense to Dave Dolson whom I respect but maybe where this thread went south when it was assumed that the instructor was incorrect about the Selmer model numbers and some ran with the ball thinking the instructor doesn't know jack.

That's ok we all make mistakes.

http://www.henriselmerparis.com/saxophones/category.php?shortdesc=Reference

Well actually the Reference 54 IS the model 74.

 

[alljoe]

Wow are you really arguing typos G?

 

[Dave Dolson]

Okay, okay . . . when someone writes "Selmer Reference 74", that implies they may have confused their models. Yes, I know that Selmer has model numbers that don't match their marketing names, just as you pointed out. But the OP's designations were misleading to say the least. Either the OP mixed it up or didn't understand the variations. The OP should either have listed the Selmer choice by the marketing designation listed in such catalogs as WW&BW, OR used the model designation used inside the Selmer Co. (and yes, I know it is Conn-Selmer now . . .). The old saw "write what you mean and mean what you write" applies here. The OP was unclear about the choices AND I still don't know if we are discussing tenors or altos (not that it makes that much difference in this discussion).

Equake, me thinks you protest too much (I know, I know . . . that phrase isn't exactly correct, either) in this thread. There are no rules about to what we can and cannot respond. Maybe the OP didn't know there was more out there and was depending on the recommendations of a teacher who didn't understand the whole picture (as was pointed out by others). There is NO HARM in offering alternatives! Is that too "hubristic" (I know, that may not even be a word)? DAVE