[JerryJamz2]

While searching my old computer documents I stumbled onto this, and actually forgot I had it. I don't remember how or where I got it, and can not verify or authenticate any information contained within;

Selmer Paris Lacquer History​

My guru within this bailiwick is, and always has been, Ralph Morgan, who was an essential witness to the processes involved with the Mark VI Saxophones. I will try to brief with this writing because I will be going to Ralph's home, with my tape recorder, and get this all down. In addition to his words I will come home with written factual evidence. Bear with me at this point of this epistle.

Lou Artley, Father of Joe, Spec, Ralph, Don, and two other forgotten (at this writing) brothers, was the one who did all the tone hole work on those original Mark VI saxes. The instruments came to our shores as raw material. With the bodies Selmer, in Paris, pulled the tone holes and left in a rough state. This is where Lou Artley came into being.

All bells were hand hammered to shape which fixed the thickness and temper They then went through a machine operation that smoothed the metal. This held true for all Paris instruments ...trumpets, trombones, and French Horns.
After all the following key work was fitted there were 5 (five) coats of lacquer. 2 (two) initially after buffing and polishing.....these were clear coats - a special lacquer from Nikolas and air dried. THEN the engraving was done - by a guy named Kenny Doty & later Bob Louser. THEN 1 (one) more coat of clear lacquer over the engraved surface. At this point all keys were refitted, and the padding was done. THEN...with the keys held closed came the Gold Coat. This Gold coat had a very fine gold emulsion in it. THEN a final clear coat. This is the coat of lacquer one sees on an original factory Selmer Mark VI.

 

[saintsday]

Thank you for posting that.

 

[hornfixer]

I was told that at one point, they were using shoe dye in the lacquer to get the gold colour.

 

[davevillajr]

Wow!! That's a lot of lacquer deadening the vibrations, no wonder they sound so good lacquer free.....

ATTN: I AM JOKING, THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE ANYWHERE THAT LACQUER ON THE OUTSIDE OF AN INSTRUMENT EFFECTS THE SOUND QUALITY THAT YOU THE LISTENER HEAR.

IF YOU STILL FEEL LIKE GETTING ALL UP IN ARMS AND BERATING ME FOR THIS, FEEL FREE, HOWEVER


As a real historical footnote, that is a really interesting series of events that lead to a great looking finish on those original horns.

dv

 

[Voldemort]

Was the plating (silver or gold) done in house or did they send it to Anderson's or another shop?

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

And for comparison, what do Selmer do NOW.

That would be interesting.

 

[clarnibass]

The instruments came to our shores as raw material. With the bodies Selmer, in Paris, pulled the tone holes and left in a rough state. This is where Lou Artley came into being.

So a lot of the work for Mark VIs in USA was done after they arrived to USA? I didn't know that. I've seen Mark VIs that had (I think) Elkhart somewhere in the engraving and maybe other USA stuff but I thought the engraving was the only difference, and was done in France too.

Are there any other countries that finished Mark VI saxophones or only the ones shipped to USA?

 

[JerryJamz2]

I'm not sure Nitai. At one time (Remember Selmer Omega Saxophones in the early 80's?) they were sent un-assembled to the USA due to the tariffs on products that were assembled prior as complete units and ready for sale. That might have something to due with it, but it's only a guess on my part.

 

[JerryJamz2]

And for comparison, what do Selmer do NOW.

That would be interesting.

I'll ask Pat Diller when I call him today on another matter and post back here when and what he can find out.

 

[jbtsax]

Was the plating (silver or gold) done in house or did they send it to Anderson's or another shop?

Good question Steve, I uh mean Sam. I wonder if your friends at Delphi who you try to impress with your "professionalism" know about all of your other "identities" on the discussion forums such as:

Sam Jack Chirella (Who is a public school teacher who specializes in students with special needs.)
Hornsmasher
Winford Barnett
Lomar Manx (and my favorite)
Gayle Rogers

"Johnny Baby"

 

[JerryJamz2]

Good question Steve, I uh mean Sam. I wonder if your friends at Delphi who you try to impress with your "professionalism" know about all of your other "identities" on the discussion forums such as:

John,

You seem to have an on-going personal vendetta with Steve Goodson, and that's fine. However this is not the place for it and it's getting old. What you 2 guys do off-forum(s) is your business and I for one would appreciate it. Be the bigger man and take the high road. Let it go, please? Thanks.

 

[jbtsax]

Thanks Jerry for that "impartial" advice. I note that there are no suggestions coming from you directed at SG for posting as Sam Chirella on a discussion forum where he is no longer welcome. By the way, is Empire Winds still a dealer for Orpheus Musical Instruments? I'd appreciate it if you would hop on over to the Nations of Music forum and post the same suggestion "to let it go" to your friend Steve Goodson (or Gayle Rogers).


John

 

[jmm1713]

I note that there are no suggestions coming from you directed at SG for posting as Sam Chirella on a discussion forum where he is no longer welcome. I'd appreciate it if you would hop on over to the Nations of Music forum and post the same suggestion "to let it go" to your friend Steve Goodson (or Gayle Rogers).

John

Aggreed .

 

[Henry D]

Agreed .

...and seconded.

I wouldn't care if Jack the Ripper was alive and posting as SaxSlasher. I enjoy the diversity of comments- the bedrock of an endeavour such as this board. Whatever your personal take on his personal life Mr Goodon certainly has cut a much larger swath through the saxophone world than 99% of it's denizens and his contributions, anonymous/veiled or not, are certainly worth inclusion whether or not you agree with them.

 

[JerryJamz2]

Thanks Jerry for that "impartial" advice. I note that there are no suggestions coming from you directed at SG for posting as Sam Chirella on a discussion forum where he is no longer welcome. By the way, is Empire Winds still a dealer for Orpheus Musical Instruments? I'd appreciate it if you would hop on over to the Nations of Music forum and post the same suggestion "to let it go" to your friend Steve Goodson (or Gayle Rogers).

John

John,

That's his forum, his house, his rules. No, Empire Winds is not, nor ever was, a dealer for Orpheus Winds. FYI - Conn/Selmer has me listed also but I'm not an instrument dealer of theirs and never was either. Some of these companies classify you as a dealer even if you order parts or have a dealer accessory account with them. It seems for some reason you are trying to pidgeon hole me also. And get another thing straight, Steve and I are friends in terms of professionals in our industry. I'm not one of his "posse" either, if that's what you're thinking. That does not mean I support or condone his opinions and actions. I don't know if Sam whoever is actually Goodson and I don't care either. Neither should you or anybody. Again, please take the high road and let's talk about repair here.

btw - If that was Steve/Sam who asked that question, it must be a good one, becasue nobody has yet to answer it.

 

[hakukani]

If Sam were Goodson, wouldn't he already know the answer?

Thanks for the info JerryJamz2

 

[Chu-Jerry]

Any idea about whether the lacquer technique you described was used throughout the production of the MKVI?
I know that Selmer was using some kind of epoxy-like finish on the SA80 and wonder just when that started.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Just why is Steve Goodson not welcome here anyways?

 

[JerryJamz2]

If Sam were Goodson, wouldn't he already know the answer?

Thanks for the info JerryJamz2

Thank you, Hakukani, as I was thinking the same thing, but not to exasperate this thread, I decided to leave that part out of it. Very perceptive of you.

 

[JerryJamz2]

Any idea about whether the lacquer technique you described was used throughout the production of the MKVI?
I know that Selmer was using some kind of epoxy-like finish on the SA80 and wonder just when that started.

Remember, that post was from my archives as was shared with me, and that's about the most solid information I have;

Rumour says it was except for perhaps the very end while they were crossing over to the MK VII from the old nitrocellulose to the new epoxy baked. Lots of interesting things happened during that dull grey part of the Selmer Paris history. Ralph Morgan passed away recently and I believe a lot of facts and secrets went with him. I'd love to know the answer to that question also. I doubt their records (if they still exist) would provide us with any conclusive evidence.

FWIW - In doing an industry-wide woodwind instrument thread-chart article and compendium for NAPBIRT, we have found it slow and difficult to get simple thread size information from Selmer Paris for their woodwind instruments. Not sure if it's a communication breakdown, or what. Even talked to Jerome Selmer about it in Frankfurt this year. It is slowly being rowed across the pond to us though.. And we're asking lacquer questions about instruments 35 years ago.. If only it was that easy.