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Forum Contributor 2015, seeker of the knowing of t
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm thinking about having some of the pads on my 36 replaced, mainly the LH stack G up to C. I find there's not quite a binary feel to them where there's a on or off quality and they are a little "spongey". This leads to note jumping to overtones and other leak symptoms unless I have a gorilla grip on these keys at times. There seems to be this not quite closed or open zone especially on the O X O key. (next one up from G)

Things like the palm keys, G# etc are fine and I don't have issues with the bottom stack at all.

Do you guys see any issues with having different pads in? I don't really want to do a full repad on a horn less than a year old.
 

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When I had my 54 it was as tight as a drum through the whole range. I am not a tech but I wonder if there is a setup issue such as them closing first in the back. that would lead to a mushy feel. They may just need to be floated out properly. Hopefully your tone holes are level.
 

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SaxPunter, have you ever spoken to Phil Noy?

I know he plays a Ref 54 Flamingo Alto and his theory is that when you get a brand new selmer the best thing you can do is repad it straight away. I know that he's a tech and that means it doesn't cost him anything but parts (and time). I know Noy is a pretty amazing player, and well if it works for him... maybe there is something to it.
 

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Forum Contributor 2015, seeker of the knowing of t
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Discussion Starter #4
When I had my 54 it was as tight as a drum through the whole range. I am not a tech but I wonder if there is a setup issue such as them closing first in the back. that would lead to a mushy feel. They may just need to be floated out properly. Hopefully your tone holes are level.
I've had my tech look at it this morning, he re-seated the O X O pad and lightened the springs in the LH X X X | O O O area. I'm going to see how that works tonight, seemed better in the shop this morning. I'm just seeing what others think here
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SaxPunter, have you ever spoken to Phil Noy?

I know he plays a Ref 54 Flamingo Alto and his theory is that when you get a brand new selmer the best thing you can do is repad it straight away. I know that he's a tech and that means it doesn't cost him anything but parts (and time). I know Noy is a pretty amazing player, and well if it works for him... maybe there is something to it.
Yep I know Phil, he did my Martin rebuild. Did a great job too.

I dont think the whole lot needs replacing, maybe 4 or 5 pads, but those pads being 100% closed is probably the most important because of the area they are in. If the resonators are the same size, does it really matter if the pad make varies?
 

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Phil is a pretty great tech - I've seen some of his work and if I was in the same city as him I think I'd get work done by him.

I can't see pads being different as a problem - as long as it seals. It may make the horn feel uneven if the firmness of the pads vary, but I can't see that being something that people would really notice.

I've seen some budget work that Mark Spencer did for some kids at the Brissy Con when they couldn't afford some real work. Ones with 2nd hand pads which looked really funny, but they horns played fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The adjustment this morning seems to have really helped a lot, the feel is still slightly spongey, but the leak like symptoms have all but disappeared and I dont have to grip those keys like a gorilla!

Still considering replacing those few pads though..
 

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I think you did the sensible thing to do (go to your tech and have him do the magic), but apparently you're not quite there yet. Visit a 2nd time, tell where it still hurts and whether or not new pads are the solution. A new pad here and there won't necessarily cure the problems you're experiencing - maybe there's some slop elsewhere in the keywork, a foul link, a bad cork, an unruly post, ...
 

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Hva e a try of the yamaha pad paper thats a pretty good short term fix for sticky pads, selmer uses matin chanu pads that I quite like.If your other tenor has black roo pads they are very firm & the reference has quite soft pads you might want them done so they feel the same. I find the black pads very postive in terms of feel but the white ones are really good as well and a bit softer.If these arent an option try the lucien delux pads, firm & responsive. I have a reference 36 as well but I like to play with a light touch & havent had any problems with sticky pads or leaks yet.....
 

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It is my experience that in the last decade or so Selmer Paris used some pads which were of quite irregular thickness (and inordinately sticky! - and nothing I tried, including Yamaha paper, made a difference more than a few days). Some had the Selmer name on the back, and some had Chanu. And the set-up had a multitude of leaks, especially the more inaccessible and/or critical pads. (Better in the last year or two though.)

If some are are a problem, replace those with Music Center pads. Otherwise you will be chasing your tail to get good and reliable adjustment.
 

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It is my experience that in the last decade or so Selmer Paris used some pads which were of quite irregular thickness (and inordinately sticky! - and nothing I tried, including Yamaha paper, made a difference more than a few days). Some had the Selmer name on the back, and some had Chanu. And the set-up had a multitude of leaks, especially the more inaccessible and/or critical pads. (Better in the last year or two though.)

If some are are a problem, replace those with Music Center pads. Otherwise you will be chasing your tail to get good and reliable adjustment.

Wise words form Gordon(NZ)
 

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Sure but I have bought four new selmers in the last two years that were all set up very well, so its not always the case. The yamaha pad paper is a temporary fix but its great. I use music centre pads here in the workshop but one thing I really dont like is a horn with mixed pads, so if the upper stack is the problem & you change them & not the rest of the sax its not in my opinion great. It seems like the visit to the tech sorted out any leaks so if your at a gig & having sticky pads & bit of yamaha pad paper is life saver..........I recently sold a 70 XXX MKVI that I repaded, it was with lucian delux pads....so I love them & use them on the horns I sell.This guy might want to short term solution to a full repad which is expensive especially if you just paid the coin to but a new ref 36 in australia. I actually picked up a near new ref 36 two weeks ago from saxquest its got the original pads & plays like a dream......
 

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One thing that was consistent with Selmers for at least a decade until maybe 2 years ago - here at least - is that the setting up was most inconsistent.

I know that there was very little attention to QC when it came to the little things that matter (and their experiments with substandard pads) and wondered if these were the 'Monday" jobs that were rejected by the local outlets, and hence sent as far away as possible to the antipodes without further ado.

Thank you internet.... Perhaps Selmer now knows that sending such crappy workmanship comes back to haunt them rather publicly on SOTW and elsewhere, so they now send them elsewhere. Who knows! What I know is that they are now much better when they arrive here. Thank you Selmer!

It is must be a pretty good test of any manufacturer... what they do with their substandard product.
 

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Duplicate post... Deleted.
 

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One thing that was consistent with Selmers for at least a decade until maybe 2 years ago - here at least - is that the setting up was most inconsistent.
Selmers from the last (about) ten years, bought new here, varied in setup from excellent (pretty much as good as it gets with the old fasion materials they use) to just terrible e.g. leaking pads, unlevel tone holes, bent tone hole walls (from factory, verfied)!
 

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I just finished a three hour gig & the ref 36 performed perfectly, no sticky pads. I have had it two weeks & played five gigs as well a bit of practice & there has been no issue. Its looks & feels great.........
 

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The adjustment this morning seems to have really helped a lot, the feel is still slightly spongey...
This could be from spongey buffer cork. Get your tech to replace the cork with heat hardened ultra-suede.

Les Arbuckle recently did this to my Barone Vintage Tenor and it has made a world of difference in the feel.
 

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It could also be from part of pads contacting tone holes before other parts do - until higher finger pressure is exerted. And that is a symptom of leaks remaining, i.e. still somewhat out of adjustment.

BTW Ultrasuede, as I have explained here before, is about the last material I would use in a vital linkage, because it has a lot of springy "give" to it, performing rather like soft rubber. But if the so-called "heat hardened" destroys this inherent property, and makes it behave like "Tech-cork", or Kraus's very high density synthetic felt, then maybe it is OK. (I just tried ironing some at over 100 degrees C, and that did not alter its properties.)
 

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I just finished a three hour gig & the ref 36 performed perfectly, no sticky pads. I have had it two weeks & played five gigs as well a bit of practice & there has been no issue. Its looks & feels great.........
Your experience is the same as practically every other Selmer player has, just enjoy it!

The way a few people say or report about about bad set-ups, finishing, etc. on a website that is so infinitesimal in regards to saxophones and saxophonists around the world means nothing.

JR
 

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BTW Ultrasuede, as I have explained here before, is about the last material I would use in a vital linkage, because it has a lot of springy "give" to it, performing rather like soft rubber. But if the so-called "heat hardened" destroys this inherent property, and makes it behave like "Tech-cork", or Kraus's very high density synthetic felt, then maybe it is OK. (I just tried ironing some at over 100 degrees C, and that did not alter its properties.)
Whatever Les does to the Ultra-Suede makes the action very firm.
 

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Your experience is the same as practically every other Selmer player has, just enjoy it!

The way a few people say or report about about bad set-ups, finishing, etc. on a website that is so infinitesimal in regards to saxophones and saxophonists around the world means nothing.

JR
How can you say that with any certainty? What do you base it on?

Have you checked with a vast number of technicians (without a Selmer trade interest) dealing with newish Selmers all around the world? You certainly have not done so in my country, because you have not spoken to me. I see [probably 95% of all the Selmers that come here ex-factory. (And I think we have here more than our fair share per population.)

Other technicians and players here have confirmed what I have reported, so it is not just a local phenomenon.

If you believe hard enough, those beliefs still do not become facts!

It was a few years ago that I wrote the 5th post here - http://www.saxontheweb.net/SOTW_Arc...eb-boardid-selmer-thread-13-spec-4645136.html. Initially people reacted really defensively, like yourself, but out of the woodwork came more and more people acknowledging that they had experienced these things.

As I have written, the last couple of years, here at least, have seen a considerable improvement.
 
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