[JayeLID]

These are the pics by the vendor.

The Schenkelaars which they made themselves have a round and small bell to body brace, the Romanian imported Guban have a different brace too.

View attachment 55573

View attachment 55574

this is the same model Toneking

Milandro, is it stamped "Holland" on it ?

 

[milandro]

No, there is only the Schenkelaars machine made engraving on the side of the bell and the serial number on neck and body. But it is definitely a Toneking one of those made at the same time when Couf was buying his and the King Tempo were made.

 

[JayeLID]

Interesting. I asked because I was wondering if they would restamp a JK-made body or not.

 

[milandro]

To my knowledge, Schenkelaars made saxophones of their own design, saxophones made with JK parts, then they sold saxophones made by JK, like this tenor, and then at the end of their commercial adventure they sold some student models made by Arta Guban Timisoara.

I have seen all of these and many examples of each type.

No saxophone had any other indication other than the engraved name (different engraving types) Schenkelaars.

They are pretty easy to recognize. In my opinion one NEEDS to be able to identify the Romanian ones.

The Arta Guban Timisoara ( Romanian saxophone in the picture here) have a bell to body brace which looks a bit like a SML

 

[JayeLID]

Thanks, and just to clarify....most Schenklaars I have seen are stamped "Holland". Which is why I asked.

So, that is another "indication other than the engraved name", actually.

Although, honestly, I have never come across a Schenklaars engraved "Schenklaars". Just stencil named ones....

 

[milandro]

No, there are no other marks that the engraving and the serial number , which is consistent for this model, with the Keilwerth serial number for a 1978 Toneking series IV the same serial range featured also in the Couf, Armstrong Heritage, King Tempo or Bundy Special

 

[milandro]

I have made some new pictures .

On top you see the JK toneking tenor with the JK badge and at the bottom you will see the Schenkelaars .

There are some very minor differences but they are really minor.

 

[warp x]

I can only see differences in the aux F#, side E and low Eb.

 

[milandro]

yes, as I said they are almost identical. This Toneking era is , as I wrote before, the one which generated very many stencils. At this stage Keilwerth was selling Couf, Armstrong Heritage, King Tempo or Bundy Special and many more.

 

[voetloos]

I came accross this today. See photos. The owner believes it is a Beaugnier Tenor made in France accross from the Selmar factory in 1960 +-. Any idea what it could be worth ?

 

[milandro]

Robert Siour & Emilen Beaugnier, two associates who made this saxophone. which was certainly made in the '20 nowhere near the 1960!

https://www.google.nl/search?client...ATUV9eQHo2CaN-jpZAB#q=R.+Siour+&+E.+Beaugnier

They were one of the so many manufacturers of Mantes La Ville (dozens of factories were " across the road" to each other there... they were almost ALL there!).

Robert Siour & Emilen Beaugnier acquired many patents in the late '20.

Emilien Beaugnier was one of the many Beaugniers involved in the making of wind instruments.Maurice his son, is the more well known Beaugnier, not Robert.

It looks is an exceptionally good state ( at least the parts that you are showing) for its age, unfortunately its short range, since it expends only to Eb won't make this very popular or useful for playing.

I would also make sure that this is in low pitch rather than high pitch.

Having said that its value is purely historical and might interest a collector but not a player. These saxophones are not particularly rare.

 

[JayeLID]

Yes, one can see by the keywork (round G# touch, only 2 side keys) this is not so much a 'player' as an interesting historical piece. Looks to be in fine shape and is certainly usable as a sax (provided not high pitch) but the keywork is leaning towards archaic.

Just curious why this query is posted in a thread about Schenklaars, though....?

 

[milandro]

Because, as you can see in this picture, they were , probably the importer of this saxophone, mentioned here on the engraved cartouche.

E. Schenkelaars, Kleine Berg, Eindhoven

 

[milandro]

Add Santoni to the list of many who sold saxophones to Schenkelaars , I've just seen one advertised in the NL ( for a ridiculously high price) made by Santoni and Identical to their Buffet Evette stencils.

One of the most ridiculous thing about this particular horn which just surfaced is that the owner had it silver plated and overhauled 20 years ago (or so he says , he appears to be a seller of general " antique" junk ) , the seller concludes that THEREFORE, after 20 years, the horn is in perfect condition ( while it looks recently rubbed) the other incredible thing is that someone has engraved Bong County on it which appears to be a district of Liberia... .

In the '80 Schenkelaars of Einhoven shut down and old their name and remaining horns to a shop First Brass in Noordwijk-NL (Music All In). Later any remaining tooling went to the Adams shop-factory in Thorn (NL).

 

[Alain Gen]

Yes, one can see by the keywork (round G# touch, only 2 side keys) this is not so much a 'player' as an interesting historical piece. Looks to be in fine shape and is certainly usable as a sax (provided not high pitch) but the keywork is leaning towards archaic.

Just curious why this query is posted in a thread about Schenklaars, though....?

I don't claim it's really a player, but if you look closely you can see 3 side keys (the E is longer than usual and it's easy to miss it).

 

[milandro]

I don't claim it's really a player, but if you look closely you can see 3 side keys (the E is longer than usual and it's easy to miss it).

Difficult to spot the 3rd key, I missed that too ( this horn goes then up to F) but yes, somewhat archaic nonetheless.

 

[JayeLID]

Because, as you can see in this picture, they were , probably the importer of this saxophone, mentioned here on the engraved cartouche.

E. Schenkelaars, Kleine Berg, Eindhoven

Ah, missed that...thanks.

 

[JayeLID]

I don't claim it's really a player, but if you look closely you can see 3 side keys (the E is longer than usual and it's easy to miss it).

Yes indeed that helps. Assuming it has a bis key and rollers on the spats and table, then I suppose it wouldn't be as archaic as I had initially thought. It does, after all, have same-side bell keys. Sorta like playing a Holton Rudy Weidoft, or an early Buescher TT or the like, then.

 

[milandro]

this is, by the way one of the Schenkelaars ( branded) but made by Arta Guban Timisoara, these were the last of the saxophones they imported under their name and , in my opinion, the worst under the Schenkelaars brand.

This is a proper Arta Guban Luxor as you can see they are almost identical

 

[jhammons01]

^^All the links are broken...