[NU2SAX]

I'm at a point where I know my scales really well, and a lot of chords. What exactly are arpeggios (e.g. arpeggios of the chords) and how do they fit into music/improvisation? I've poked around in the threads and in the books I have but haven't come up with a clear answer. So forgive me if I'm repeating a thread that's already been beaten to death.

 

[DukeCity]

An arpeggio is playing the notes of a chord one at a time (as on a single-note instrument like a saxophone), as opposed to playing the notes of a chord all at the same time (as on a polyphonic instrument like a piano).

 

[Jolle]

As Dukecity says. For example : the arpeggio of C7 is : C-E-G-Bb

How they fit in improvisation and music? If you ask me, a bit like scales : you can use them once in a while, but it gets boring pretty quick. It's a great way however of getting the feel for a new chord progression : just play all the arpeggios helped me improvising later on.

 

[PhynyxMusic]

Beginning of improv, and most of improv for others

As others said, it is a great place to start figuring out improv over the chords you are given. A lot of pros even use this as their primary form of improv. If you look at a lot of what Kenny G's solos are, they are almost completely arpeggios in some form. He also uses a lot of the pentatonic scales (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th scale degrees), which are only 2 notes more than the arpeggios.

 

[NU2SAX]

Oh, ok. I didn't think it was that simple. Duh! I should have figured that out since I learned on piano and arpeggios were - yeah, playing the notes of the chord separately rather than together.

I also know the pentatonic scales - so you're saying you can also use them to improvise. I take it you would typically use the pent. scale within the key(s) of the chord(s)/chord changes?

So then how do you use passing tones? Just to make the chords/arpeggios more interesting?

 

[Jolle]

read this thread to start with, there is some good info on the "goal note method" : http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=66360

 

[JL]

So then how do you use passing tones? Just to make the chords/arpeggios more interesting?

Yes, and to make your lines smoother and more melodic. You have to experiment and use your ear.

 

[Pinnman]

I would add that the notes of the arpeggio (arpeggios are three notes not four, by the way) - also of the seventh chord (which is four) - are the ones to use as the basic notes in improvising, thereby avoiding 4ths & 6ths except as passing notes. Like all rules, this can be broken, but it is a useful rule nonetheless.

 

[JL]

(arpeggios are three notes not four, by the way)

This might be splitting hairs, but I never heard that an arpeggio is limited to 3 notes. In fact, I would say you can have an extended arpeggio, using chord extensions:

C7: C E G Bb D F A

That's a 7 note arpeggio right there, is it not?

 

[Al Stevens]

An arpeggio is not the notes in a chord; it is the playing of a series of notes in ascending or descending order usually with repetition of the series at each octave. Thus, you can arpeggiate a scale, a chord, any line you want.

 

[Ken]

posted in the wrong thread

 

[JL]

An arpeggio is not the notes in a chord; it is the playing of a series of notes in ascending or descending order usually with repetition of the series at each octave. Thus, you can arpeggiate a scale, a chord, any line you want.

Yes, quite correct, imo, Al. And thanks for clarifying because I think it is important to be accurate with these terms. I'll take it a step further:

The noun "argeggio" refers to the actual sound of the notes being played in a series of thirds, up or down, outlining a chord or scale (but see below). I guess in that respect it refers to the notes, but in a specific sequence.

The verb "arpeggiate" refers to the actual playing of those notes in the specific sequence, up or down.

I'm not sure about what you mean when you say "arpeggiate a scale." I assume you mean play the scale in thirds, as in the example I gave for an extended C7 chord?

 

[Al Stevens]

The noun "argeggio" refers to the actual sound of the notes being played in a series of thirds, up or down, outlining a chord or scale (but see below). I guess in that respect it refers to the notes, but in a specific sequence.

The verb "arpeggiate" refers to the actual playing of those notes in the specific sequence, up or down.

I'm not sure about what you mean when you say "arpeggiate a scale." I assume you mean play the scale in thirds, as in the example I gave for an extended C7 chord?

We apparently have different definitions for arpeggio. As I understand it, it is not confined to chords of thirds such as the dominant 7 in your example. You can, for example, arpeggiate a descending line against a C9 chord as follows:

E,D,C,Bb,G,E,D,C,Bb,G,etc.

The addition of the D to form the 9th departs from strictly using 3rds. Is this not an arpeggio?

 

[DXCamp]

According to The Dictionary Of Music arpeggio is Italian literally meanig play on the harp. Arpeggio is defined as a term for the sounding of the notes of a chord in succession, rather than simultaneously; also, a chord so sounded. Other related words are arpeggiando (It.) in arpeggio, and arpeggiato, (It.) played in arpeggio.

 

[NU2SAX]

Aren't scales by definition "arpeggiated" in the sense that they are played singly and in a series? Technically they aren't arpeggio I think. But if I get your point, you can arpeggiate chrods to play over the chords/change in a tune, AND you can include passing notes which often would come from the notes of the scale, either non-thirds, or extensions of the chords such as 7ths and 9ths, even 11ths.

Have I got it right?

It seems that the trick is to memorize the scales and the chords so that you always have the ability to improvise up and down any given scale or chord, and even to use chromatic notes rather than diatonic notes?

It seems too that I should get good at inverting chords so that I don't get stuck always starting on the root, which could get boring and predictable.

 

[JL]

We apparently have different definitions for arpeggio. As I understand it, it is not confined to chords of thirds such as the dominant 7 in your example. You can, for example, arpeggiate a descending line against a C9 chord as follows:

E,D,C,Bb,G,E,D,C,Bb,G,etc.

The addition of the D to form the 9th departs from strictly using 3rds. Is this not an arpeggio?

I see what you mean. I think that would be an arpeggio since it is confined to the chord tones. I guess it's not confined to thirds, strictly speaking. Good point. Maybe the best definition would be "running the chord tones up or down in sequence," or something like that.

Nu2sax, regarding your observation about not always starting on the root and inverting chords, I agree it's very important to be able to nail any chord tone. The trick is to know the chord tones cold for each chord. So to stay with C7, you don't want to think "C" only with this chord, but rather C E G Bb. That way you can "voice lead" by targeting he closest chord tone. Also, the 3rd and 7th are very important because they tend to define the chord function best.

 

[Al Stevens]

A good exercise for this study (with C7) is in 16th notes:
ascending:
C,E,G,Bb, E,G,Bb,C, G,Bb,C,E, Bb,C,E,G, etc.
descending:
C,Bb,G,E, Bb,G,E,C, G,E,C,Bb, E,C,Bb,G, etc.

Do the same thing with other dom7 chords. Then minor 7. Then dim7. You'll soon get used to hearing them from positions other than the root.

 

[Jolle]

thx Al. My exercise for tomorrow. What do I love this forum

 

[NU2SAX]

This is all very helpful. I'm getting a bit more fluid with improvisation, but it's still not very good, and I think it's mostly because I don't have enough of the chords and changes down so I've been sticking too close to a few chords and notes in the key of the tunes. I'm trying to learn how to get comfortable with the changes. Mostly I'm memorizing the various scales and chords, and practicing them a lot, trying to internalize the sounds of each tone.

I'll try the exercises too. Thanks.

 

[Al Stevens]

Here's an exercise to help you get more comfortable with chord changes.

On staff paper, write out the melody of a tune. Above the melody write the names of the chords just like on a lead sheet. Leave every other staff line empty, like the bass clef staff on piano music.

On the empty staves write the notes of the chords aligned under the chord symbols. But write only the root and third of each chord.

When you play the tune and improvise, look more at those two-note chords than at the melody and chord symbols. Eventually, the harmonic context of the tune kind of gets burned into your brain and becomes second nature. Move on and do this with more tunes. With time, the sounds of all the possible chord changes will be a part of your harmonic memory, and you'll be improvising freely.