[jkdub57]

I think I'm a perpetual beginner playing a tenor sax. Now retired and have the time to play for just personal pleasure. I've kinda played several saxophones over the years and have not really had problems with any notes or strange sound's. Well until now. Since I don't play for anyone but me and I'm also obsessive, I have 3 low end and probably all Chinese saxophones. Don't really know what the Allora is though.
I just got the Allora brand new and it's a pretty good horn but I need to have a very good read to get all the notes, I have trouble with middle d, it wants to be low d, that's the only note I have trouble with. I have a dirt cheap Chinese unbranded sax that I got for just under 300 dollars and I can play that with any read that can make a sound, all the notes and never any squeaks or odd noises.
What could be the difference? I like the Allora and as long as I have a read it likes it's good but with an occasional unwanted noise, have to really be conscious of my embouchure. Also I've never had a sax that let me play all the low notes with such ease, very strange.

So it seems I got an awesome horn in that no name China sax but it's hard to get low c and below with it, yeah, saxophones are weird.

 

[milandro]

gurgles and low C or D problems are not strange in a saxophone, there are many reasons (some may even be hidden also to inspection).

First try the mouthpiece cap trick. Put one inside the bell, that may stabilize the note braking up into its harmonics.

However, even if this does the trick, it may not tell you why it happens.

This may be a leak. Top octave on the neck is closed and working well? The side one operates until A but if the top is not entirely closed... .

Thge neck may be leaking (difficult to spot) and the palm keys may be slightly leaking ( sometimes difficult to see)

 

[1saxman]

Finger G and press the octave key. Look to see that the neck octave doesn't move and the body octave opens. It could be just stuck.

 

[whaler]

Anyone who thinks a $300 is a good idea needs a teacher.
Just get a student model Yamaha for around the same price. You can find them cheap all day.
You’re setting yourself up for frustration trying to deal with these Amazon and Walmart saxes.
If you already know how to play you may get one of these to play with the little tweaking you know from playing the sax but for an amateur it’s a really bad idea.
How come you have to pay tax on Amazon stuff when the billionaire who owns it doesn’t pay any taxes?

 

[Canadiain]

FWIW Allora is a WWBW "house brand". Previous generations of Alloras were made in Germany by B&S and were outstanding horns, so brand snobbery isnt very helpful I dont think.

Do other players have the same issue with this horn? Is there someone the original poster knows who can throw their mouthpiece on it and give it a playtest?

Im curious what mouthpiece the original poster is using at present? Without wanting to start down the road to painful "GAS", a lot of problems Ive had with low note response and other weird things went away when I found a mouthpiece / reed combination that worked with me not against me.

First thing to check though is the octave key adjustment, and then a leak check I think.

I suspect the answer to the last question is that Jeff Bezos can afford much better tax attorneys and accountants than me and has homes in many jurisdictions to make him harder to pin down. Thats just how it is for the 1%

 

[JayeLID]

I'd say the answer is even simpler - our 'justice' system has no desire to 'pin down' Jeff Bezos or any other corporate giant. They OWN the justice system, as well as DC and all legislative activities.

But back to the OP's question:

I sorta echo Whaler here, in a way - at this point ...WHY do you keep buying cheapo new asian saxes ? STOP doing that, OK ?
When you decide to purchase again...sell 2 of them, take the $200 you get for the both, and put t towards a name-brand horn with an established reputation (Yamaha, Jupiter as two most obvious examples) which can be had for around $500-ish.

OK, with that said....if your horns are not speaking properly on all notes, first of all - take them to a tech to see if they are leaking.

If they are, have that attended to. If they are not, then it is you. So you can then ask the question again, knowing that there is something amiss either in your mouthpiece/reed setup or your blowing/embouchure.

 

[zapatista]

Anyone who thinks a $300 is a good idea needs a teacher.
Just get a student model Yamaha for around the same price. You can find them cheap all day.
You're setting yourself up for frustration trying to deal with these Amazon and Walmart saxes.
If you already know how to play you may get one of these to play with the little tweaking you know from playing the sax but for an amateur it's a really bad idea.
How come you have to pay tax on Amazon stuff when the billionaire who owns it doesn't pay any taxes?

Yes I agree 100%, no Amazon or Walmart $300 saxophones. Only $150 eBay saxophones will do it.

 

[Fader]

A more accurate answer to the Amazon question about taxes is that they reinvest much of their profit, (R&D, job creation, expansion, etc.) Another thing to keep in mind is that they lost money for many years. Current tax law allows you to offset income against for prior years losses. Additionally, Bezos is NOT Amazon. He pays income tax like the rest of us. Not on his net worth though - on his income.

 

[saxcop]

I've owned three Allora horns in the past. They were the Chicago Jazz and Paris series. The CJ was made in Taiwan. It is a good horn. Even on my "pro" Allora I had to refloat many pads. It leaks. If your playing the mouthpiece that came with it get rid of it.

 

[JayeLID]

A more accurate answer to the Amazon question about taxes is that they reinvest much of their profit, (R&D, job creation, expansion, etc.) Another thing to keep in mind is that they lost money for many years. Current tax law allows you to offset income against for prior years losses. Additionally, Bezos is NOT Amazon. He pays income tax like the rest of us. Not on his net worth though - on his income.

Interesting take on it. Actually, many communities who host their facilities would beg to differ.

The argument that 'reinvesting' in their own expansion and R&D is a bit of a puzzling one to make, because right there one is more or less stating that they reinvest the $ which should have gone to the public domain ...back into their own company for the benefit of the company.

Bingo.

Thus... some people might argue that paying municipal, state, and federal taxes actually IS a 'reinvestment' ...in the variety of civic infrastructure which keeps communities and municipalities...society as a whole, really... functioning and livable....

 

[Fader]

Interesting take on it. Actually, many communities who host their facilities would beg to differ.

The argument that 'reinvesting' in their own expansion and R&D is a bit of a puzzling one to make, because right there one is more or less stating that they reinvest the $ which should have gone to the public domain ...back into their own company for the benefit of the company.

Bingo.

Thus... some people might argue that paying municipal, state, and federal taxes actually IS a 'reinvestment' ...in the variety of civic infrastructure which keeps communities and municipalities...society as a whole, really... functioning and livable....

It's not an "argument" that they are investing in their own company. They are - it's how they're avoiding taxes. I'd love to debate it, but it's already become political and that wasn't my direction. I was simply sharing what I know about their tax situation because my small business manages taxes in the same way.

I'm not against taxes at all. I actually hope to pay more taxes than anyone I know, but if I made an extra $250k this year, I'd rather buy another pair of mics, and a used Bosendorfer grand piano from my local music store. I like the guy at the music store. He could use the money, and I'm investing in my local economy. Better yet - the local music and arts scene which is sorely underfunded. Plus, I'm getting a killer piano and a stereo pair of mics out of the deal. The other option is to take the profit, pay $100k in taxes, and invest the other $150k in something like...well...like Amazon.

What's interesting to me is that high tax rates actually encourage those kinds of business re-investments...To take the profit and save them, you have to pay the taxes. Many would rather invest in their business, and put off taking profits until they retire (or hit a bad spot). It's all about what's best for you (and those you love.)

Edit: Full disclosure: I will not make an extra $250k this year. I will not pay more taxes than anyone I know, and sadly - there will be no Bosendorfer grand for me. I might however buy some Amazon stock. At a minimum, I'm sure I'll buy something from Amazon. I won't hold it against Bezos though that he'll benefit from that purchase.

 

[ZootTheSim]

... some people might argue that paying municipal, state, and federal taxes actually IS a 'reinvestment' ...in the variety of civic infrastructure which keeps communities and municipalities...society as a whole, really... functioning and livable....[/COLOR]

Bingo! Taxes pay for school music programs, power grids to run sax factories and sound systems, and roads to get audiences to gigs. Of course, as a Canadian, I'm used to paying high taxes for my services.

 

[AddictedToSax]

Did Amazon break any laws? Nope. How did they make $11B in profits and pay no profits? By using the law to their advantage. They re-invested their profits to build their business. Meaning they grew the business which means they hired more people who paid their taxes and grew the economy. It's not a simple economy we live in. One way or the other the government gets it's share. Amazon, the corporation, pays out billions in payroll and in turn pays billions in payroll taxes into the system. Nobody gets off without paying their share. FYI my wife and I pay at least 50% of what we make in taxes.
We live in CA and pay at 11% state tax on top of the federal taxes, Social Security, Medicare, and 8.75% sales tax. Not sorry for having a good life and not sorry I don't pay more.

 

[lostcircuits]

FWIW Allora is a WWBW "house brand". Previous generations of Alloras were made in Germany by B&S and were outstanding horns, so brand snobbery isnt very helpful I dont think.

Do other players have the same issue with this horn? Is there someone the original poster knows who can throw their mouthpiece on it and give it a playtest?

Im curious what mouthpiece the original poster is using at present? Without wanting to start down the road to painful "GAS", a lot of problems Ive had with low note response and other weird things went away when I found a mouthpiece / reed combination that worked with me not against me.

First thing to check though is the octave key adjustment, and then a leak check I think.

I suspect the answer to the last question is that Jeff Bezos can afford much better tax attorneys and accountants than me and has homes in many jurisdictions to make him harder to pin down. Thats just how it is for the 1%

+1

 

[BH9]

Bingo! Taxes pay for school music programs, power grids to run sax factories and sound systems, and roads to get audiences to gigs. Of course, as a Canadian, I'm used to paying high taxes for my services.

Technically, in the US, power grids are not built with tax money. Although they might as well be, and would probably cost us (taxpayers) less if they were. In some parts of the US, public schools have been all but abandoned, and music programs are not what they once were. Roads are not that great anymore either, and there's been a big push to privatize even highway construction along with everything else. Don't get me started...

 

[cparker777]

Anyone who thinks a $300 is a good idea needs a teacher.
Just get a student model Yamaha for around the same price. You can find them cheap all day.
You’re setting yourself up for frustration trying to deal with these Amazon and Walmart saxes.
If you already know how to play you may get one of these to play with the little tweaking you know from playing the sax but for an amateur it’s a really bad idea.
How come you have to pay tax on Amazon stuff when the billionaire who owns it doesn’t pay any taxes?

You are correct. I am dealing with that frustration as we speak. I would give an arm and leg right now to have a used Yamaha 23.
A year and a half ago I found an alto on the Wal-Mart site. The Ammoon with the black lacquer and gold bell. I got it for 169, lower than on other sites
Today, I finally gave it extensive play time. It was horrible, and the horn fought me every step of the way.
It looked tempting, all the bells and whistles of a pro horn, blue steel springs, etc.
I finally got into a living situation where I can play everyday now. Everyone tells me how beautiful it looks. As soon as I hit the first note the cat took off leaving behind a trail of dust, quicker than the Roadrunner.
I can't get anything out past the low C. I can't find anything wrong that would prevent this. The g# stays shut. There are no leaks
The low c was very resistant. Above the high D was shrilly and out of tune. I was exhausted from the uphill battle after a half hour.
When I took the mouthpiece of the neck, the narrow end of a neck has a tone ring. They used black lacquer on that. While using the horn today, a substantial amount of the lacquer on that tone ring had peeled off.
I felt the pads, which came with the horn, and they felt harder than a rock.
I use a Rico Royal 2.5 reed, with a Rousseau Studio Jazz MP, and a Gigliotti Ligature. I have used the same setup over the last 25 years, and on any horn I have tested, I played great, without effort or strain. With the Ammoon I kept running out of breathe and had difficulty staying in tune. The notes started drifting out of the intended register. Nothing helped
When I am able I am thinking of selling it so someone can use the parts, and then getting something used, far superior. I have been browsing everywhere on the internet. I will put away a little money each week, so by the end of the year I can have something much better.
Lesson learned from all of this. I am glad I didn't spend anymore than what I did.

 

[datsaxman]

The sooner that Ammoon is gone, the better.

A cheap lesson if it sticks really.