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Discussion Starter #1
I purchased a silver SaxArt saxello from Ron Ashtar through e-bay. The sax came and the bottom lip of the bell was bent and the thing would not play. Even though thier e-bay listing said return the sax within three days in the event of damages, they are coming up with every reason why they don't want to replace the sax. Everything from I have to file a claim with the shippers for damages to the bells are all bent as part of the tuned bell system. There ads are misleading about returns and the fact that you get a sax with a bent bell as part of the tuned bell system. I caution anyone who is thinking about buying from this unprofessional business. The way they have handled this situation has left me disgusted. Thank goodness that e-bay and Pay Pal agree with me and will be covering the purchase price. It's outfits like these that make buysing a sax on e-bay so unpleasant. Shame on them! My appologies to anyone who knows Ron, he may be your friend and a "good guy" but I feel the need to warn others about how this transaction went down.

:(
 

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Really Sorry for the business they gave you. I feel the need to investigate their policies further though. I don't think they should get a bad rep from one rotten deal. Maybe this can become a customer experience thread for SaxArt ASHTAR saxes. I definitely won't look at them the same, but other's experiences might tell a different story.
 

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Too bad. What a hassle. I posted a warning about their reeds awhile back. Complete garbage.
 

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I smelt a rat all over this one, from day one. All that horse pucky about tuned bells and a better love life. It's a steaming, aromatic pile on a cold winter's morn. There's nuthin' like a bent bell lip to deflate your love life. Why was it bent? Was it packed properly? Did the shipping apes jump on your package? Perhaps the Overseers of the Ashtar Command are not pleased with you. What? What, you ask, is the Ashtar Command? Earthling, behold the superior Alien race parked just outside the Stratosphere, watching us, controlling our Nations, guiding our destiny and recording all we do in the Akashik Book of Records. And to think all that power could be harnessed in a saxophone! Gurus have feet of clay every time. If you want a really good soprano saxophone for cheap, talk to Chuck Kessler, Phil Barone, or buy a Bauhaus-Walstein, from a reputable dealer who has served hundreds, if not thousands, of customers.
 

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that is the problem when we do business with somebody starting on the market, we don´t know if we can rely on them.

For me the situation is very clear.

When the seller does offer a return for the case of damage and don´t honour his word , he is breaking with a code among the sax players, a code of honour, despiting that this is the wrong way to run a business.

No matter if this new brand is good or not, to promisse and not fulfill terms must be punished. How? recalling and doing business with an alternative source.
There are enough serious dealers out there, as some mentioned above.
Don´t forget CE Winds. They are honest.
 

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There are enough serious dealers out there, as some mentioned above.
Don´t forget CE Winds. They are honest.
I am in complete agreement about the honesty and excellent service by CE Winds, and they don't make ludicrous claims about their horns. The OP was, apparently, in the sub-$600 market, which may rule out some of the other sellers. I'm not sure if CE Winds has anything in that price range. For $499. you could step into this: http://www.kesslermusic.com/KesslerCustomSax/KCS1LQ/KCS1LQ.html If you want the next level of features, you could step up to the $649 model. I bet it has all the magical powers of the saxart....

The saxart eBay ads still have the silly talk about the tuned resonator bell smoothing out your love life, with atrocious grammar that rivals any bad translation from Chinese to English: http://cgi.ebay.com/SaxArt-Straight...ultDomain_2?hash=item1c0e4b340c#ht_500wt_1182
Ashtar Allen still says stuff like this: "...a new line developed by master player Ron Allen. Mini Series 3 Most in tune dynamic sound. Dynamic range increases with Exclusive Black Gun Nickel that emphasises the fundamental tone and a SaxArt only harmonic series enhanced from our unique Tuned Bell only by SaxArt. The ratio between the frequency of the bell tone and resonating tone of the instrument provides an amazing innovation only heard on our saxes. Tuned bell like singing bowls, to special special frequency that enhances the resonance. Black Gun Nickel plated gives most depth to sound. SaxArt! See, hear and feel over 30 years of imagination ignite your creativity within the first moment you play SaxArt. by International recording artist Ashtar Ron Allen."

Dig the great breakthru in nickel plating, and how the (Tibetan?) singing bowl tuning has a special special frequency. 30 years of imagination will explode from your chops in the first moment of your playing. Maybe the bad grammar serves to cover up the weakness of these claims.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Your right I should have went with Kessler! I bought a Yanigisawa tenor from him about 8 years ago and that was the best sax purchasing experience I have ever had. Dave beat my local price by so much I was able to fly to Vegas and try the sax and still spend less than the same horn in my retail area.

Ashtar has until the 20th to get this resolved before I can push the claim up with e-bay to get my $ back and I doubt he will have done anything as he still wants me to provide pictures of the damages when I have already sent the sax back to him. He thinks the bent bell is because that is how the tuned bells look. Well if that is what the tuned bells look like keep your sax and I will go get an untuned bell that is round! We'll see what Ron says when he gets the sax if he says that is how the horn is supposed to look I will be blown away!:shock:
 

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This is not a surprise at all.
When someone stamps their name or trademark on a saxophone in the new age of the internet, he or she should expect their sales to die when they don't have good customer service and clear return policies. This company was relying on catchy phrases and smoke and mirrors. Forums like ours though brutal, keep these dishonest sellers honest or better yet drive the really bad ones out of business.
 

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He thinks the bent bell is because that is how the tuned bells look. Well if that is what the tuned bells look like keep your sax and I will go get an untuned bell that is round.
Looking at his eBay fotos, the bells all appear to be round. Even Tibetan singing bowls have to be round, with a circular lip. Again, I ask, was the horn packed properly? If the horn banged around inside the case, and the case banged around inside the box, as I have seen several times, the bell and random delicate parts will be knocked out of line and the thing may not even play at all. Sometimes the case is loose on the horn, and it needs extra strategically placed padding to hold it still. Do you have any fotos? I would love to see what you got. Maybe I am wrong in my judgemental reading of his terrible ads, and you are the victim of a shipping accident that has deprived you of a great horn at a bargain price! Someday, somebody is gonna have a SaxArt saxophone and tell us how it plays. Maybe Mr. Ashtar Allen could read this and respond. Maybe.
 

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Looking at his eBay fotos, the bells all appear to be round. Even Tibetan singing bowls have to be round, with a circular lip. Again, I ask, was the horn packed properly? If the horn banged around inside the case, and the case banged around inside the box, as I have seen several times, the bell and random delicate parts will be knocked out of line and the thing may not even play at all. Sometimes the case is loose on the horn, and it needs extra strategically placed padding to hold it still. Do you have any fotos? I would love to see what you got. Maybe I am wrong in my judgemental reading of his terrible ads, and you are the victim of a shipping accident that has deprived you of a great horn at a bargain price! Someday, somebody is gonna have a SaxArt saxophone and tell us how it plays. Maybe Mr. Ashtar Allen could read this and respond. Maybe.
I'm sure the singing bowls play in better tune too!!
I bet he is too big an Ashtar to respond.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Unfortunately I don't think Mr Ashtar will be responding I qoute from one of his emails to me

" I MAKE enough f**king money as an artisi that I do not care about any thing to do with ebay etc"

Notice his bad grammar and all (I edited the "F" word for this forum). This guy has a mightier than thou attitude and really is not pleasant to deal with. He has shown his true colors to me.

Regardless of weather the horn is damaged or not he should have said if you are dissatisfied I will send you anther sax ASAP. If he would have done that I would have been more than understanding, instead he tells me I have to make an insurance claim with the shipper (I didn't ship the sax he did and e-bay agrees he is responsible) then he tells me there may be nothing wrong with the sax at all. (If that is how the sax looks, I don't want it.) He wants pictures and is accusing me of damaging the sax and sending it back. (Why would I damage my own purchase) He still insists that I need to send pictures when I have told him it has been returned and gave him a tracking # (if I don't have the sax I can't take a picture.) This guy really needs to get a handle on how business is done and how customer service works. It may be a great sax but I really don't wnat it at this point and I hope he stalls until I get my refind from e-bay on the 20th.

If/When I get my money back I think I will go for the Kessler Custom Balck Nickle model. Or I will talk with Mr Bua, he's local and I have met him and he can find a great used horn.

Hey Bill it's Matt with the Mark VI tenor and Yani T-991 that you looked at in Sac.
 

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Anyone who used that type of language in a customer service situation would instantly get a PayPal claim from me and negative feedback. That's 100% unacceptable. For an Ashtar, this guy seems remarkably un-centered.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ron has agreed to work something out when he gets the sax back. He will take a look at the sax and determine if it is repairable or not and will offer me another sax.

It is unfortunate that Ron and I let this escalate but I think we may have been misunderstanding one another. He is willing to help me I just need to help him file his claim by providing some information.

I still look forward to getting Ron's sax and look forward to playing one and sharring my experience here.
 

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Be aware!! Two persons are involved in answering the emails. As I started communicating with Ron talking about their horns I got some answers that were very consistent and other which weren´t and then I noticed that the style of the emails changed as another person were writting them.
As I wished to inquire about this I got an email from the Tech who is responsible for assemblying the instruments and I recognized the same style.

Well, Ron Ashtar is sharing his name on it but he can´t answer all emails since he is working on a CD right now. So I guess the majority of the emails are actually not coming from him and I tend to think this impolite email didn´t come from him personly.

I for myself lost my interest as I realized that other person was writting in his name. I didn´t find it correct.

But in spite of this, these horns could be good but there are many other good options out there from people who meanwhile became a synonimous for seriosity in business.

I hope Bruce Bailey will become the next one.

Go for it Bruce. :)
 

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Ron has agreed to work something out when he gets the sax back. He will take a look at the sax and determine if it is repairable or not and will offer me another sax.

It is unfortunate that Ron and I let this escalate but I think we may have been misunderstanding one another. He is willing to help me I just need to help him file his claim by providing some information.

I still look forward to getting Ron's sax and look forward to playing one and sharring my experience here.
I hope things work out for you. FWIW: this company promised me a new box of (hopefully playable) reeds and then I never heard from them again (no reply to emails).
 

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I know Ron is presently working on a CD. I plan to see him on Saturday. I really can't imagine him using that language with anyone or sending an email like this. I will talk to him. I had planned to see him over the holidays but he was too busy with his current recording project.

The sax bells are round for sure!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well unfortunately Ron's busy schedule has probably cost him some business as he obviously doesn't have the time to handle customers. The sax has been attempted to be returned/delivered to his e-bay/Pay Pal address and has been undeliverable (no one to accept it). e-bay has refunded my money and the nightmare is over. I am not going to feel bad about this becuase I have been taken advantage of enough on sax purchases and I always just let it slide but not this time. Weather or not he thought the sax was in fact damaged, he should have offered a replacement immediately as most sucessful companies would and not try and place blame on me. My warning about this company stands and if you are bold enough to buy one of these saxes be sure to use Pay Pal so that you are protected!

Thanks to those on this forum that supported me and wrote letters to him by the way. Below is a copy of the last email I sent Ron. I think I will do what I should have done in the first place and contact Kessler & Sons and see about that black nickle deluxe soprano. A bit more than what I paid for the SaxArt but worth every penny I am sure!

last email to Ron.............

Ron,

I have spoken with e-bay and they have spoke with UPS. The sax has been attempted to be delivered to you 2 times to the address provided in Pay Pal. I advised you that I would give you until the 20th to get the sax and inspect it. Since you are refusing to accept the delivery or are too busy (not my problem) I have cancelled my order with e-bay. They will refund my money to Pay Pal as you have not fulfilled your terms with me and e-bay. They also advised me that if you do not accept delivery of the sax on the 3rd try it will go back to customs and after 3-5 days you will be unable to retrieve the sax. I advise you to accept delivery of the sax so you do not loose more. This will be my final e-mail as e-bay has agreed to refund my money and the case will be closed. The sax is now your responsibility.

Sorry that it ended this way and I advise you to look into how your company handles customer service in the future. A replacement sax should have been sent while you looked into your insurance claim. Instead you chose to make me think it was my fault, made me wait, and then are not accepting delivery of my return. It may have been a great sax but I will never know.

Goodbye Ron and best of luck.
 

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Hey Matt,
A lot of members here hate paypal, but the buyer protection has improved greatly. If you are an honest seller, you have nothing to fear. I am happy to hear about the refund. Save your dough and buy a proven curved soprano. They are available for way less than you think if you are patient. Good luck and great job!

P.S., to all forum members: Don't buy horns from ashtars
 

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Something sellers need to understand, now that the Internet has become universal, is that bad words get around quick. Nowadays, if you genuinely mistreat someone, the whole world will know.

It used to be Caveat Emptor: Buyer Beware, but now I think the tables have been turned and the rule is Caveat Venditor: Seller Beware!
 
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