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bluesaxgirl said:
Kind of reminds me why everyone at my school decided to play the alto and bari sax: it had the same fingerings of the recorder they had to play in the fourth grade. :D
Hey, it worked for me! ;)

Though drums are my main instrument, I played recorder for years. Then in high school I dabbled with the bassoon for year (double reeds are tough!), then bass clarinet for a bit. Then I heard Harry Carney with Duke Ellington, and I had to make that sound (or a very rough approximation). Finding out that sax fingering was more or less like a recorder was cool, but also finding out how loud the bari could be was a 15 year-old's dream! :D

Mark (pardon the slight thread hijack)
 

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The only sax fingering Oboe I played was a Loree in about 1968. The holes were all different from a normal Oboe and it really was not all that bad (I was). I agree that it is better to learn a standard Oboe fingering.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I know there are a lot of sax players that would like to try oboe, though they've usually been put off by the different fingering system more than anything else.

But if this works and makes the accessibility of playing oboe for single reed players much easier (ie. for players that have turned down or have lost pit work due to lack of oboe in their lineup), then at least it's a step in the right direction if a workable solution with a familiar system is available.

Obviously there'll probably be opposition from other oboists, but sax players face opposition from enough sides anyway, and will shrug this off as well.
 

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I picked up Oboe no problem. Fingerings really aren't that complicated, it's the embouchure that's the problem, keeping it in tune and all. Actually, I had the fingerings down pat, the only thing was I couldn't play very long due to the tight embouchure. And as mentioned, there's definitely going to be opposition from oboists.
Not that I'm telling you not to try it...

Personally I'd be more interested in a sax-fingered Clarinet :D ...
 

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.

As replied before, sax fingerings on the oboe is in fact a terrible idea. The only thing I support doing is making Eb a slider :twisted: It is an incredibly bad habit of mine not to use side Eb on the oboe! I do try hard to play the oboe well and make my own reeds. I am not a total lazy-*** doubler either. I started making decent reeds not long after I started (- < 1 year). It isn't incredibly difficult if you practice, you should be able to diagnose every reed you make with a fault and improve upon it the next one you make (I wish I could put myself into a light and look at what I did wrong) It's very disappointing how you guys don't make your own reeds. Storebought sax reeds are all fine and dandy, but oboe reeds are a total different world. Even a beginner reed maker is able to make better reeds than storebought. Quality of those things are dreadful and it costs so much. Please at least buy pre-gouged cane and find an oboe teacher. Now if you really can't be arsed to do that, at least buy from a respected oboe player. The cost is the same as storebought and quality is far superior. You aren't students!!!
Please doublers, if you cant take a reed knife, get out of the double-reed section! ... oboe mouthpiece, the first time I heard of that I almost crapped myself. :shock:
Sorry for the rant guys, it really is a form of stress relief

Psst... why isnt laubin/yamaha in the top 6 manufacturers :? yamaha makes excelent professional range oboes, and Laubin ranks up right next to Loree.
 

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Not unless you play it off center with a full head of hair...
 

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I once had a simple system oboe - The fingering was so near to the sax it only took half-an-hour to figure it out and I played it on a jazz gig only a day later. But of course, that's nothing like a full conservatoire system.
 

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hakukani said:
Danke

I want one. I also want a Rackett and a set of Uilleann pipes.:)
I had a rackett once - The volume level is so low it's useless.
I think it's a TUBAX you need !
 

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I double on oboe , flute and clarinet and I have to say I've never heard of oboes with sax fingerings. I have worked hard to become a good player on all these different instruments and I regularly play particularly oboe and cor in various orchestras. I have to say that if I played one of these saxoboes it would really feel like a cop-out and I certainly would feel really stupid sitting next to other oboists knowing that I had taken a shortcut in playing that instrument. If you want respect as a multi-instumentalist this is certainly not the path to take. Personally I don't agree with the idea anyway....
 

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There are more than one fingering system for the oboe in common use, with the conservatory and simple systems being the most common (I think). In the US, most of the oboes seem to have some form of conservatory system. I've seen examples of of the "sax-based" fingering system but never played on one. I don't think it is a question of "cheating", but that designs with sax-like fingerings didn't sound like the more traditional systems. I bet if someone were to devise a more convenient fingering system on an instrument that sounds like we expect an oboe to sound, the traditional systems would go the way of the dodo.
 

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The only sax fingering Oboe I played was a Loree in about 1968. The holes were all different from a normal Oboe and it really was not all that bad (I was). I agree that it is better to learn a standard Oboe fingering.
I played a Loree with saxophone fingering (or more correctly; Boehm fingering). It is owned by saxophone maven Paul Cohen. The keys are somewhat larger, and "rationally placed". The problem is the thing sounds too much like a soprano saxophone.

Remember, there are two types of oboe. The Conservatory system used throughout the world, and the Vienna Oboe used only in Vienna. The English oboe has a thumb key that changes the Bb fingering, but other than that it is the same as a standard Conservatory model.
 

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I'm afraid I still stick by my original opinion! I would just feel too stupid sitting enxt to an oboist with a sax fingered oboe, I get far more respect from playing the same instrument (loree in my case) as the other players. That is not say that I don't enjoy the fact that it is easier for sax players to pick up the fingerings of instruments like flute and oboe. We should use this to our advantage, but recognise that they are different instruments!!!
rant over :)
 

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I'm afraid I still stick by my original opinion! I would just feel too stupid sitting enxt to an oboist with a sax fingered oboe, I get far more respect from playing the same instrument (loree in my case) as the other players. That is not say that I don't enjoy the fact that it is easier for sax players to pick up the fingerings of instruments like flute and oboe. We should use this to our advantage, but recognise that they are different instruments!!!
rant over :)
I agree - Knowing the sax fingering doesn't place you at any disadvantage in learning the oboe fingering, or any other fingering come to that. In fact it's probably an advantage if anything.
 

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100% agreed. Sax fingered oboes are dreadful. Steer clear at all costs. Same with single reed oboe mouthpieces. If you are really interested in an oboe, buy the very best model you can afford and above all take the advice of a good pro oboe player. There are maybe 10-12 good oboe makers, and about 6 absolutely top-class:-

Howarth
Loree
Rigoutat
Marigaux
Puchner
Buffet

come to mind, in no particular order. There are some excellent lesser known instruments and up-and-coming makes too, so this is not an exhaustive list by any means. :)
As an saxophonist turned full time oboist I actually want to expand on your list so I'm going to add my opinion and do my best to order them. Yes this is only my personal opinion, however I think it is a solid one ;).

Rigoutat
Hiniker (if you can find it!)
Buffet
Laubin (7 year waiting list but a GREAT oboe)
Loree
Marigaux
Howarth
Josef
Fox
Yamaha
Bulgheroni
Covey

Keep in mind that only in America is Loree a top choice. In 1994 at the Oboe Blow Out they did a 'blind oboe' test. Rigoutat was at the top by far with Loree at the very bottom.

Sometimes I wish oboe only had as many viable brands as saxophone...classically speaking :)

Check out this for more information on some of the other brands
http://www.oboes.us/resources/makers.html

and most importantly of all...be sure to try the oboe you want. If you're going to invest the time into doubling (or converting) to oboe you want to get the instrument that you enjoy...not what other people tell you to play.

As far as the original topic...i would be very worried about a saxophone system oboe. How would the extended range work? Could it still reach the double C? Would pitch tendency change? The fact that you would lose the 2nd octave key (side key) would be a *nightmare* to me. You'd lose all your harmonic fingerings (scary!) I guess I'm probably a little more oboe-y than the typical doubler but i'd be scared of those things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I honestly can't see what the problem is - since saxes are so easy to get around and share a lot of characteristics with oboes (far more than they do with clarinets), then why should a sax system oboe be a bad idea if it grants the player the same playability as a soprano sax?

Oboe keywork has developed over time to what it is now, and you can trace the keywork ancestry back to the very early days when it only had two keys.

However, Boehm system flutes and clarinets were a complete redesign on their ancestors (mechanically speaking) and the lineage has been broken as well as the fact that they are far more widespread than the older systems and designs, though we accept these as that's all most of us have known since the day we picked one up and started playing.

If you can already get around on a sax with ease, then why not have an oboe that is just as easy to get around? Tradition doesn't have to dictate for the sake of feasability.
 

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What tradition has going for it is inertia. Once something is established, with a set of vendors ready to turn out an item that requires some specific tooling to produce, then what's in the market place tends to hold forth and displace everything else. In a way, this is much like evolution, although instead of "natural selection" you have an "unnatural" selection that is foisted by teachers, students and national academies.

Recall that the six key clarinet had a very hard row to hoe when Müller presented it to the governing body. They ranted that it was too complicated and all of that. With that attitude, who knows what they would have said about the modern 17/6 key arrangement.

The same "mafia" that perpetuates the Buffet horn as the be all and end all of clarinets effectively works against any sort of improvement in the instrument. Despite such things as adjustable thumbrests and left hand Eb levers having been invented back in the 1800's, they are now only "common" on the instrument.

I've given up trying to enlighten others as to how much more facile the little finger problems are with that one extra key, much less the articulated G# key. Let everyone else be chained by "tradition" - I'm happy that my road to music has been made eaiser.
 

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I honestly can't see what the problem is - since saxes are so easy to get around and share a lot of characteristics with oboes (far more than they do with clarinets), then why should a sax system oboe be a bad idea if it grants the player the same playability as a soprano sax?

Oboe keywork has developed over time to what it is now, and you can trace the keywork ancestry back to the very early days when it only had two keys.

However, Boehm system flutes and clarinets were a complete redesign on their ancestors (mechanically speaking) and the lineage has been broken as well as the fact that they are far more widespread than the older systems and designs, though we accept these as that's all most of us have known since the day we picked one up and started playing.

If you can already get around on a sax with ease, then why not have an oboe that is just as easy to get around? Tradition doesn't have to dictate for the sake of feasability.
Having studied oboe for a long time, and now playing sax, I have to say that the fingering system of oboe is quite superior to that of the sax (IMO), with many more alternates to eliminate clumsy cross-fingerings and slides between keys.

I doubt that it would be possible to add the normal palm keys to an oboe, nor would it be possible to have a good middle D, which on the oboe has its own vent. Correct me if I am wrong on those points.

Toby
 

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It would be nice to get the oboe to have automatic register keys, instead of the 3 it currently uses in full system (IIRC, it's been a long while since I've touched an oboe).

I thought about this a few years ago, and asked my double reeds professor why they didn't use a sax-like system on the oboe. He (Dr. Henry Grabb) is a double reed tech of some renown (besides being a monster player), and according to him the simple answer is the material the instrument is made of.

Upper joints on an oboe are incredibly easy to crack. The more posts you attach, the more likely it is to crack the joint. An automatic octave (and all the other stuff you guys would like to see an oboe use) would overstress the wood and maybe last a year before serious cracking would begin. The woodwind world is still hung up on material making a difference in tone (which I firmly disagree with), and so as long as we're "convinced" that grenadilla sounds better than resin, you will not see a sax-like oboe... or at least not one that's used by many professionals.

This is definitely one area where tradition is holding back the advancement of an instrument.
 
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