[philler99]

Hi I own a selmer super action 80 series II alto sax and every time i put a string swab in the bell and pull it out, the metal rod that juts out near the neck hole always tears the cloth. This is the same for the fuzzy stick swab and i always end up with shredded fuzz on my sax and in my case. Does anyone know of a soft swab that does not rip when pulled against this metal rod?

 

[maddenma]

Well, I think you're talking about the body octave pip, no? Sticks into the horn about 2" down from the neck?

The H.W Pad saver shouldn't leave fuzz in your horn. If you have something else, you have something less.

http://www.amazon.com/H-W-APS-Alto-...E8YO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1319249846&sr=8-6

For a body swab, use the BG chamois swab. Also quite tear resistant.

http://www.amazon.com/H-W-APS-Alto-...E8YO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1319249846&sr=8-6

Finally, there's the BG neck/mouthpiece swab to clean out the really spitty bits.

http://www.amazon.com/BG-BGA31-Mout...cal-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1319250074&sr=1-2

Swab everything out with the chamois swabs, then stick the pad saver into the horn when you put it away.

 

[Henry D]

There's always the chance that the end of the body octave pip tube has a burr on the end which is catching the swabs.

You can probably confirm or deny this by feeling around the end of the tube with your finger.

If so, get a sheet of 400 grit sandpaper. Cut off a strip 1/4 inch by the length of the sheet. Form a "U" with the strip with the grit on the inside of the "U" and snake it down the body of the sax and around the body octave pip tube. You can pull it back and forth a couple of times with a "shoeshine cloth" motion and smooth off the end of the tube. This is incredibly unlikely to do any harm whatsoever to anything unless you sand away for about three and a half weeks...

Happy tooting-

 

[Stephen Howard]

There's always the chance that the end of the body octave pip tube has a burr on the end which is catching the swabs.

You can probably confirm or deny this by feeling around the end of the tube with your finger.

I reckon that's the most likely cause.

If so, get a sheet of 400 grit sandpaper. Cut off a strip 1/4 inch by the length of the sheet. Form a "U" with the strip with the grit on the inside of the "U" and snake it down the body of the sax and around the body octave pip tube. You can pull it back and forth a couple of times with a "shoeshine cloth" motion and smooth off the end of the tube.

Best of luck with that job! It'll be one of those that go "Oohh...nearly...nearly...damnit! Oooh, nearly again...nearly...blast!!" - a bit like apple bobbing or hooking fairground fish out of a barrel.
If you're going to do it yourself, find a piece of flat wood that will fit down the bore (1cm wide will do) and glue some fine grade carborundum paper to one side of it - I'd use 600 grit - and then use it like you would a file. It'll dress the top of the tube, and should free up any sharp bits hanging off the sides.

That said, I'd recommend taking it along to a repairer, who will remove the palm keys to gain access to the bore and then be able to dress and polish the end of the insert tube with ease.
It's a beer-money job.

Regards,

 

[Dave Dolson]

I'd like to comment on the obvious do-swab/don't-swab issues brought up by this thread. I recall much has been posted about whether or not it is even necessary to swab a saxophone after playing. I'm one who doesn't swab my saxophones (but I DO swab my wood clarinets after playing). I realize others believe in it and may even be appalled at the concept of not swabbing a saxophone after playing. So be it.

I recently bought a swab suitable for soprano saxophone because of an issue of moisture gathering in the upper-octave vent and cutting out the upper octave register. So I was swabbing away one day and the darned thing became stuck. No matter what I did to force it back out, it would not budge. Finally, I used a pistol rod and pounded on that with a rubber mallet and I was able to drive the swab out of the bore. The result was that the interior part of the vent broke away from the body (breaking the solder) and I had to have a repair-tech re-solder the upper-octave vent.

There was no visible damage to the horn and it plays fine now. But that reinforced MY previous practice of not swabbing. And, for what it is worth, I have saxophones I've owned and played for YEARS without swabbing and they are not harmed by not swabbing (nor do they smell). DAVE

 

[maddenma]

I tend not to stick my tongue inside of the horn, so hygiene isn't an issue for me, and for many years I didn't dry them either and just put them away in the case wet. Over time I came to the notion that if I dry it first then maybe the low Eb pad lasts longer and G# is less prone to sticking. I'm also one that now stores them standing up as well, so whatever water condenses just sits in the bow away from any pads, so your mileage may vary. Also never had a swab get stuck in one of my horns, so I guess I haven't been sensitized to that aspect of it.

Agree that if you leave them out on the stand it's probably pointless from that perspective. Drys out on its own just fine.

 

[skeller047]

I make my own swabs out of chamois, cut in a long triangle - for tenor, about 6 - 8 " long at the base and about 24" in length. Then tie it to a shoelace, about 45" length is perfect, put some weight on the end of the lace - I use a piece of electrical solder wrapped around the lace for about 1 - 2", then cover it with a piece of heat shrink tubing so it won't scratch the bore. The shoelace and chamois are joined by a sheet bend - you can find instructions on the interweb.

I have never had one of these swabs break or get stuck. They eventually get funky enough that I need a new one - usually around 5 years. Smaller sizes for alto, soprano and clarinet. I have separate swabs for the neck and horn body.

It occurs to me I should probably put a small pictorial up about this.

 

[maddenma]

Actually, that would be a pretty helpful thing to do.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

I reckon that's the most likely cause.

I agree, unless the swab is made from an unsuitable material.

Best of luck with that job! It'll be one of those that go "Oohh...nearly...nearly...damnit! Oooh, nearly again...nearly...blast!!" - a bit like apple bobbing or hooking fairground fish out of a barrel.
If you're going to do it yourself, find a piece of flat wood that will fit down the bore (1cm wide will do) and glue some fine grade carborundum paper to one side of it - I'd use 600 grit - and then use it like you would a file. It'll dress the top of the tube, and should free up any sharp bits hanging off the sides.

The end of the tube is often not flat. And hard materials make a poor backing for sandpaper. I've not tried it but I would be inclined to suggest using contact glue to glue the sand paper - wet&dry probably best, with water as lubricant to make it last - along an index finger and use that. Naphtha - i.e. lighter fluid - and some rubbing will remove the glue.

 

[Henry D]

Best of luck with that job! It'll be one of those that go "Oohh...nearly...nearly...damnit! Oooh, nearly again...nearly...blast!!" - a bit like apple bobbing or hooking fairground fish out of a barrel.
If you're going to do it yourself, find a piece of flat wood that will fit down the bore (1cm wide will do) and glue some fine grade carborundum paper to one side of it - I'd use 600 grit - and then use it like you would a file. It'll dress the top of the tube, and should free up any sharp bits hanging off the sides.

The end of the tube is often not flat. And hard materials make a poor backing for sandpaper. I've not tried it but I would be inclined to suggest using contact glue to glue the sand paper - wet&dry probably best, with water as lubricant to make it last - along an index finger and use that. Naphtha - i.e. lighter fluid - and some rubbing will remove the glue.

The course of action truly depends on where the burrs in question are. That said;

-I'm not exactly Mr. Coordination but the strip of sandpaper method has worked for me without any real degree of "Oooooh, AAAAAAAAAH, D(*&(^)(!!". Though I appreciate the thought process, in practice it really turns out to be pretty straightforward unless the strip is cut really thin. Since any burrs which would cause a hang up are almost always on the bottom edge of the tube the applicability of the fix is obvious.

-A popsicle stick is probably ideal for the purpose of serving as backing for a bit of sandpaper if sanding off the end of the vent tube is the desired course of action- though depending on the location of the burrs on the tube end it may take quite a bit of sanding and may still leave a sharp edge as a result of the sanding itself (probably not enough to catch on, though). It's still a five minute deal though- not really a dime's worth of difference between the methods.

-Double stick tape on the stick with a strip of sandpaper works fine for a five minute bit of sanding- and when the grit clogs it only takes a minute to replace it with a fresh piece. Gluing sandpaper on my finger might work but that really does offer a flexible substrate and I dislike soaking my fingers in acetone! In any case- the vent tubes are just far enough down that they would be a pain to get at with a finger for many.

-Old reed backs serve great for using this technique on many narrow access quick sanding jobs.

 

[Stephen Howard]

The course of action truly depends on where the burrs in question are. That said;

-I'm not exactly Mr. Coordination but the strip of sandpaper method has worked for me without any real degree of "Oooooh, AAAAAAAAAH, D(*&(^)(!!". Though I appreciate the thought process, in practice it really turns out to be pretty straightforward unless the strip is cut really thin. Since any burrs which would cause a hang up are almost always on the bottom edge of the tube the applicability of the fix is obvious.

I've tried it - I ended up using some colourful language - but I agree, if you can make it work it'll do the job.

Gluing sandpaper on my finger might work but that really does offer a flexible substrate and I dislike soaking my fingers in acetone! In any case- the vent tubes are just far enough down that they would be a pain to get at with a finger for many.

I would so not recommend using a finger. Brass swarf can be viciously sharp, and the resulting injury from a cut can go very bad very quickly - and at best such cuts are extremely painful for several days.

Regards,

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

I didn't mean applying enough pressure that the sandpaper was cut by a bur. No method would work if you did that!

A finger is very, very good at sensing pressure. I would never expect such an exercise to cut a finger, through the thickness and abrasive particles of sandpaper, unless I were very, very careless or deliberate. At least that is what my experience suggests, and that experience includes regularly using my finger as a cutting board behind a mounted low key bumper when cutting it shorter. Each to his own, I guess. But I agree that cuts from brass are not nice; they seem to take an extra long time to heal.

Henry, I did not mention acetone. But don't worry too much about occasional contact with the stuff. Acetone is naturally produced and disposed of in the human body as a result of normal metabolic processes.

 

[ratracer]

I've never done this to a sax, but in other "cleanup" applications, I've used emery boards, the ones used for finger nails, to do some touch up on very small metal burrs hard to reach or where I wanted to be particularly careful. You can pick them up for about $1 USD each at a multitude of places - Wal Marts, Targets, drug stores, etc. (at least here in the States). (fortunately, with four women around the house, I've been able to momentarily "borrow" one that was readily available.) Some of them are fairly stiff. Some are "cushioned". Some have several gradations of grit, from "coarse", "medium", and "fine" (or polishing).

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Cushioned would be better, I think... more like my "finger" approach.

The thing is, if there is a sharp bur at the end of a tube, it will probably be a lip in the plane of the end face of the tube. Using a flat, firm abrasive surface in that same plane, as is pretty well unavoidable when working down inside the bore on neck-most and bell-most parts of that bur, will not be too successful in removing such a bur. The ideal would be to attack that bur in a plane about 45 degrees to the plane the bur is in. A soft backing on the sandpaper will get a little bit closer to that ideal. At least that is my perspective from picturing a bur in that location.

Otherwise use the "Oooooh, AAAAAAAAAH, D(*&(^)(!!" method.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I think it's safe to say that the first thought that anyone has after cutting their finger is "Ow...&8*&%!!!" - closely followed by "Well, I didn't expect that".

Sharp metal and fingers seldom make for a fun time.

Regards,

 

[Henry D]

I didn't mean applying enough pressure that the sandpaper was cut by a bur. No method would work if you did that!

A finger is very, very good at sensing pressure. I would never expect such an exercise to cut a finger, through the thickness and abrasive particles of sandpaper, unless I were very, very careless or deliberate.
Henry, I did not mention acetone. But don't worry too much about occasional contact with the stuff. Acetone is naturally produced and disposed of in the human body as a result of normal metabolic processes.

-Actually- only based upon my experience which of course may vary from yours- normal wet dry sandpaper on a finger (though I've never glued it to my finger)- works great for smoothing out a pronounced edge or in an application such as you describe. The additional "feel" makes it an excellent method in many instances. Where there's a sharp burr though, the stuff catches and tears right through the particle encrusted surface with incredibly annoying ease.

-FWIW, I find a strip of sandpaper backed by a bit of surgical tubing slipped over a pencil or dowel end to be very handy. If you cut the strip long enough to insert one end in the tubing and then wrap the strip snugly up and over the tubing with the other end of the strip going back into the tube you can wiggle the tube over the end of the dowel and the strip will be held in place on the inserted ends by the grip between the tubing and the dowel. You'll have a decent rubber backed sanding tool which can prove very handy for specific applications. There is, of course, a knack to getting the strip in the tube on the dowel done right. The first few times will almost certainly involve several tries, several minutes, and a certain quantity of regrettable word choice. Like many things though, once the knack is mastered it's quick, easy, and effective. It's fast enough to encourage changing the strip out without a qualm as soon as it begins to clog- I prefer to use relatively fine grit papers (400-600-800-1200) and these clog quite quickly on many materials.

-On the acetone; again based upon my experience (and based as well upon the labeling that accompanies most cyanoacrylate products), acetone is the solvent of choice to remove the stuff. I'm not particularly concerned with the use of a product widely consumed used by women to daub all over their finger ends while removing nailpolish- I'd find lighter fluid about equally offensive. The stink on my fingers and dry skin mildly bugs me and, especially with the acetone, I'm clumsy enough to have smudged an occasionaly finish with residual solvent on my fingers despit the very fast evap time. That said, it's a small miracle that nothing's gone south (North for you I suppose!) over the decades where my hands have regularly been soaked in a wide array of assorted solvents and lubricants (I draw the line at paint strippers and battery acid but other than that...)!

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

All sounds good to me, especially that soft-tube backing trick.

I use both acetone and lighter fluid on a regular basis. And my hands have probably experienced as many delights as yours. They do say though, that for some people, there reaches a point when the body says enough is enough, and they say it is not nice.

I don't think I want gun blue on my skin again. What has been worst for my skin is when I spend a day handling copper pipe and brass plumbing fittings. I don't really know why. But what does it say about bare-brass saxes!)

 

[skeller047]

I make my own swabs out of chamois, cut in a long triangle - for tenor, about 6 - 8 " long at the base and about 24" in length...It occurs to me I should probably put a small pictorial up about this.

Actually, that would be a pretty helpful thing to do.

Pictorial and description here:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?169076-How-to-make-a-nice-swab