No one has yet suggested just walking over and turning it up...
...if the vocalist is mixing from the stage, I'm assuming that's where the board is.
If you're using pro sound reinforcement, don't sandbag the engineer unless you want gain (and other) problems...
Cheap (and decent) video recorders are readily available. Record every gig. Have your band review the tapes. This is as important as a rehearsal, so dedicate the one after the show to this. IT not only helps you adjust the mix - it reveals all the challenges you face as a band. Unprofessional behaviors like: Players noodling between songs; The same mistakes made by the same players every gig; Drug and alcohol abuse; Poor transitions; Unnecessary chatter; Long silences that clear the dance floor; etc... There are so many things a band needs to be aware of besides the mix that it just makes sense.
Possibly so. One reason I don't adhere to new trends (unless I ever find one I like). The thing for us sax players to do is take charge and either join a band that understands the concept of dynamics, a good mix, and how to play music, as opposed to mind-numbing jackhammer noise. Or even better, form your own band and take charge of the situation, including song selection (old school R&B, blues, funky jazz, in my case) and volume control. The volume thing may take some compromise & tactful reasoning with the guitarist & drummer of course. Anyway, that's my solution with my band.
+1 Not to mention that there are a gazillion sax-less bands out there that will never make it past wall flower status. Add a sax and it's a game changer, people will come to see and listen. But then you may run into egos behind your back and that's where the "tactful reasoning" comes in.
Before the sound check the guy put a monitor in front of me. I just told him to unplug it or leave it off. I want to hear what's going out in the theater not what the monitors are giving me.
:cheers::cheers: totally agree. Can't stand a monitor. Very misleading if that is all you hear. Played a few large gigs over the years only to be told by friends that the horns were not coming out the front very much. But the stage monitors were loud and clear so thought we were doing great. Had one situation where the trumpet player really got in the soundmans face
Never had monitors back in the day with the Custom padded mains on each side of the stage and almost behind us tilted slightly inward. That way we could work the mics as needed for volume/solos/background.
In our present band we use the 4 mains (2 stacked on the left/2 stacked on the right) as our monitors so there is never a question of what the audience and dancers are hearing. Really nice!
No disagreement on that point, John. That would be my perspective too.
On the other hand, as some of my colleagues in various past lives would quip, the pay is the same regardless of whether you feel good about it. In this case, you are being payed to be on the stage and play. Is the person that is paying you happy with your contribution? That is often the bottom line.
On still another hand, every performance is an audition for your next gig. Would your band mates recommend you for your contribution? I'm thinking yes, but be aware of whether they think of you more as "that prima Donna horn player that is always complaining about something".
I don't have much skin in this game. I made a choice a long time ago not to play in electric groups any more. I blew 'til I injured myself - literally injured the lining of my lungs trying to be heard (look up "pleurisy").
I totally hear what you're saying, George! I agree that THE bottom line is if the guy who's paying you is happy, end story. I don't run into situations like this very often any more, but contrary to what I'm wanting to really do (or saying to myself in my head), I usually go up to the person running sound and make sure they know what I'd like to have in a monitor mix, etc. and especially point out to them what I want my channel to be eq'd like. Another major pet-peeve of mine is when I hear myself coming though a $100k sound system and what I'm hearing is more like a kazoo than a saxophone. I know I don't sound that bad! Unfortunately, there aren't many sound tech's who honestly know what a saxophone should sound like. My kind 'n gentle side (ha) simply gives them some pointers/hints but in the end, they're in control of the whole shebang..... I get my check at the end of the gig and if they're happy, I'm happy. I'll then decide later if I want to put myself through that situation again.
I should clarify that I've played some large venues as part of a horn section with groups like The Four Tops, The Temptations, Aretha Franklin (RIP), etc. and I did NOT go anywhere close to any sound tech. to whine or tell them what I "wanted". That's a completely different ball game and I'd never mess with those people. I'm referring to more local outdoor concert gigs, bars, etc. I agree that coming across as a prima-donna (I've been called worse!) isn't going to get anything accomplished, but again, giving input and letting them know you care about how you sound just as much as any other instrument or singer in the band certainly does help!
:cheers::cheers: totally agree. Can't stand a monitor. Very misleading if that is all you hear. Played a few large gigs over the years only to be told by friends that the horns were not coming out the front very much. But the stage monitors were loud and clear so thought we were doing great. Had one situation where the trumpet player really got in the soundmans face
Never had monitors back in the day with the Custom padded mains on each side of the stage and almost behind us tilted slightly inward. That way we could work the mics as needed for volume/solos/background.
In our present band we use the 4 mains (2 stacked on the left/2 stacked on the right) as our monitors so there is never a question of what the audience and dancers are hearing. Really nice!
Yeah John, that's the ideal situation you describe with the mains where you can hear them! If only that were always the case. Unfortunately in a lot of situations, the mains are up in front of the stage and you really can't hear them on the bandstand. In that case, some sort of monitor is needed to hear yourself and prevent over-blowing. I have a really nice JBL monitor and it works well. The one jam I attend, the mains are back and to the side where they can be heard and I don't need a monitor there.
This is what I am using (One Fore Strings 5) when playing with a very loud band, my wireless Shure BLX4 sits right on top of it and it is small enough to fit on almost any stage: https://guitar.com/review/acus-review/
And then I don't even use a direct stage mic but have the microphone in front of the amp. It doesn't work with every setup/band but I don't have to strain myself and can concentrate on the tone. And BTW, the sound quality of that little shoebox is incredible.
Yeah John, that's the ideal situation you describe with the mains where you can hear them! If only that were always the case. Unfortunately in a lot of situations, the mains are up in front of the stage and you really can't hear them on the bandstand
Yes JL, it is ideal when we can hear (and control) the mains. Makes for a fun gig for sure and that is what I have had with our band for the past 20 or so years. On those "sit in the horn section" shows like the Temptations and Four Tops that have all of the powerful mains, side fills and loud monitors I simply go and play the best that I can and have a good time and hope that we are heard out front to add to the show. My getting uptight days are long over :bluewink: hell I'm just glad to still have fun gigs!
The one jam I attend, the mains are back and to the side where they can be heard and I don't need a monitor there
Yes sir, that is the way to do it! Especially on a jam.
I was trying to recall the first time that I even saw and heard a monitor. I believe it was in 63 in the AF jazz band in Tx. They had them sitting close to the music stands but not too loud. They were nice for that situation.
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