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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
By the time you read this most of the world has seen the news and is aware of the gutting by fire of this amazing piece of world history. While history cannot be bought Notre-Dame can rise again for future generations of to experience and enjoy. The future of the Heart of Paris and a UNESCO world heritage site is priceless. The world is uniting in its concern to save this amazing piece of history. Its cultural value is beyond words. Tears around the world are being shed. Notre-Dame's importance reaches far beyond religion. It's value reaches far beyond secular concerns deeply into our heritage. It doesnt matter if you are Catholic, protestant, or atheist. France is even asking for 1 dollar/euro contributions. If you can give more do so in the knowledge that you are helping to preserve and restore history that reaches far beyond the boundaries of France or any single country.




Thanks

Phil




The link to the tax deductible donation site is below:




http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/friends/donate/

There are also other sites but this is a primary donation site. More info: https://www.fastcompany.com/9033554...3-things-you-can-do-to-help-rebuild-right-now







 

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By the time you read this most of the world has seen the news and is aware of the gutting by fire of this amazing piece of world history. While history cannot be bought Notre-Dame can rise again for future generations of to experience and enjoy. The future of the Heart of Paris and a UNESCO world heritage site is priceless. The world is uniting in its concern to save this amazing piece of history. Its cultural value is beyond words. Tears around the world are being shed. Notre-Dame's importance reaches far beyond religion. It's value reaches far beyond secular concerns deeply into our heritage. It doesnt matter if you are Catholic, protestant, or atheist. France is even asking for 1 dollar/euro contributions. If you can give more do so in the knowledge that you are helping to preserve and restore history that reaches far beyond the boundaries of France or any single country.




Thanks

Phil




The link to the tax deductible donation site is below:




http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/friends/donate/





Phil, whilst i agree with much of what you say regarding the importance of this building to the people of the world, it seems a bit early for such requests.

Who is making this request, and is going to receive all this money, and decide how to spend it?
Have the Catholic Church said they are prepared to contribute?
Is there no insurance in place?
Etc etc etc

Lots of questions need to be answered. There is no panic, and less than 24 hours seems a bit premature.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Many, many people have already pledged millions but we are talking about a decades long project that is many billions in cost.

I dont suggest there is a panic but I dont see it as premature.

News is something people forget. There is something to be said about now vs later when it comes to fund raising. Many will forget by next week but the work must be continued for decades.


Im not suggesting people empty their wallets. Im suggesting every little bit helps.

No one is obligated. Its a choice.
 

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It just seems premature to me.

For example. If it is insured, where do all these funds end up?

The Catholic Church ? The French Goverment ?
 

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I believe that the site predates the fire. If you click on "the problem" you will find a discussion of issues that predated the fire. The 800 year old structure needed maintenance and restoration work. You may have seen scaffolding that was visible in many of the pictures was related to that work. If you click on "how you can help" and "budget" you may find a $33million (I had expected Euro) budget further suggesting that the site predates the fire. The estimates that I've heard on the radio since the fire cite billions in reconstruction.
Certainly it is reasonable to verify that funds sent to a website do indeed go to the names charity or organization. Using sites like these:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+verify+a+charity&t=ffab&atb=v149-1&ia=web
are good tools for US charities; you'll note that several rely on IRS status.
I didn't find this one, however the parent site:
http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/en/
certainly appears to be the site for the grand lady herself. The friends subpage seems to me to be a legitimate site directing funds raised for Notre Dame.
I don't know what type of insurance the church might have, but I anticipate that it might not cover the $33million preexisting rehabilitation needs. To analogize, your auto insurance might replace the fender damaged in an accident, but not paint the faded hood that wasn't specifically damaged in the accident.
If as several reports have suggested that the fire was somehow related to the rehabilitation work, one might posit that this site's fundraising, rather than being premature, is too late. On the other hand, the radio just now listed several companies pledging over $100million each (as Phil noted). It will be interesting to see how France's secular government can respond in terms of funding a religious site. A radio report yesterday suggested that it was hamstrung in funding the rehab work prior to the fire.
Thank you Phil for sharing the link to direct donations!
 

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Thankfully, the Roman Catholic Church appears to have ample resources to rebuild. Just between the Vatican, Germany and Australia they're by far the wealthiest religious organization in the world.
 

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It's always a tricky one when peoples' charitable nature is called on and you then weight that up against responsibilities of organisations such as governments/churches. I wouldn't know whether you can actually insure a cathedral - I don't see why not but who knows?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Pete, on a personal note I would not give a dime to the Catholic Church. But this structure transcends mere religion. It has become a cultural and historic symbol that means many different things to different people. While it is a Catholic Cathedral it is so much more. Its religious ties do not begin to define it. I understand that in some peoples minds it is difficult to separate the two...but time has defined it as such.

The French government is already involved despite its secular stance.


"Notre Dame is our history, it's our literature, it's our imagery. It's the place where we live our greatest moments, from wars to pandemics to liberations," -Macron
 

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Catholic shmatholic, as they say.
When I read this
The French billionaire Bernard Arnault announced on Tuesday that he and the LVMH luxury conglomerate he controls would donate €200m (£170m) to the reconstruction efforts.

The pledge came after the rival fashion group Kering, founded by the billionaire François Pinault, offered €100m to help “completely rebuild Notre Dame”.
I was reminded of the traditions, going back as far as you like, of people donating to or sponsoring edifice construction. Sometimes the wealthy burgers of the town wanting to show off their success - or in this case, that one merchant is more successful then another; or the citizens wanting to adorn their town with some magnificent edifice - often to shown that their town is better than that down the road.
Sure, sometimes it's purely devotional. More often an act of community (even a $1 internet donation); but equally often there are also it's a great opportunity for flaunting it.
The wheels of history turn....
 

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Music wouldn't sound as we know it today without this building.
In medevial times Notre Dame and its musicians were crucial for the development of polyphonic music and influenced the whole development and theory of part music.

Listen to that piece, written by Perotin in the 13th century (before the notation we're used to even existed):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SA_XhMKH6oo

Imagine you lived in that time and all you've heard before were unisonous gregorian chants or songs with one accord. Then you enter the giant doors of Notre Dame and listen to that - BOOM! What an experience!
I could listen to that over and over again. And btw this guy had swing, too! ;-)

I'll contribute. It's part of my culture and it doesn’t matter if I'm a member of the catholic church or not, as Phil wrote. It's just more than that. It's responsible of how we hear music and how we play it, be it Bach, Mozart, Charlie Parker, Kenny G, AC DC, whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Speaking of music: The latest news is that the famous grand organ survived the fire. 8000 pipes.


BTW, according to Reuters insurance is not going to rebuild Notre-Dame. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...bear-notre-dame-rebuilding-cost-idUSKCN1RS1LO

The initial estimates are around 8 billion and decades of work. What this means is that it will likely cost double that given inflation. Additionally, there probably is not a project in the world like this that does not run into massive cost overruns.
 

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That’s amazing! Watched Reuter’s International on the scene coverage of a protest march staged by the apparently proletariat inspired yellow jackets movement; this particular grievance focused on the contribution effort for Notre Dame.
I had no idea that this group has been active for close to a half year long string of weekly protests until the Notre Dame fire.

Speaking of music: The latest news is that the famous grand organ survived the fire. 8000 pipes.


BTW, according to Reuters insurance is not going to rebuild Notre-Dame. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...bear-notre-dame-rebuilding-cost-idUSKCN1RS1LO

The initial estimates are around 8 billion and decades of work. What this means is that it will likely cost double that given inflation. Additionally, there probably is not a project in the world like this that does not run into massive cost overruns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, they began over a planned increases in fuel tax.

They accomplished their goal.

Now there appear a to be a lot of splinter groups with much more diffuse interests....sadly a section of them are quite destructive.

This has led to their decline in support across France.

Im far from an expert on French politics and this isnt the place. From what I read, like I said, their current purpose has become less focused. I presume there is on (besides wanting Marcon to resign).

As for the resentment of contributions. I figure you cant make all the people happy all the time. Bitterness and resentment are a part of our world.
 

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Sigmund451, I agree with your assessment that their bitterness is misplaced as it concerns Notre Dame.
From what I understand, Macron’s popularity and support is tenuous at best but he clearly understands that Notre Dame is France’s most enduring site and I’m sure most realists and cynics alike will agree with him.
 
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