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i just received an RPC Barisax mpc from the US which is refaced and marked AN
- it also has the date, the tip (125) and the chamber style NY written on.
thanks for any info
Tom
 

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really? i mean has the chamber size changed or the baffle? it certainly is a modified RPC but still its origins must count for something?
It all depends on what model it is. If it has been refaced and it is one of the rollover versions vs the B version It has moved pretty far from being an RPC unless significant interior work was done. These begin as blanks and changing the baffle and the facing significantly changes what it is. On the other hand, if you play it and you like it who cares.

It will matter if and when you go to sell it but if its Adam's work at least it was done by someone who knows their way all around a mouthpiece.
 

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really? i mean has the chamber size changed or the baffle? it certainly is a modified RPC but still its origins must count for something?
No. A modified RPC ain't an RPC anymore. It's anywhere from a hacked piece of garbage to a signature piece from your refacer du jour. But either way, it ain't an RPC. RPC's have only one thing in common; and that's Ron's finishing work.
 

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I must agree with Grumps...Ron really does play his pieces for several days before you ever get them
There isn't any "problem " to correct!!.......yikes
I can agree that work may be needed on pieces from Babbitt..etc where there 'just churnin' them out"
but i find it funny myself when someone has re-faced a e.g Ted Klum or Theo Wanne or even a RPC...
taint an RPC no more!
 

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When you buy one of his pieces Ron talks to you for 15-20 minutes and finds out what horn you're using, your experience, what kind of sound you're going for etc then he hand crafts a piece just for you. Make a change to Ron's work and it ain't Ron's work any more.

RPC = Ron P. Coelho ... nuff said.

If you like the modified piece that's fine but it's no RPC anymore.
 

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Reminds me of a college philosophy class where the professor pondered if replacing your arm made you a different person, or replacing an arm and a leg, etc. If you replace everything you clearly do become a different person, and there was supposed to be something profound in contemplating exactly when the line was crossed.

Maybe it's the same thing with mouthpieces, though you only ever hear people harp on this in regards to RPCs. By the same logic if you reface a Rico Graftonite it's no longer a Graftonite, but I've never heard anyone assert this. So the real issue seems to be that Ron Coelho is the embodiment of Perfection in Mouthpieces in the eyes of some forum members. I like some of his mouthpieces, but he's no more infallible than a number of other makers/refacers out there who talk to you about what you want and work hard to get the best results they can. Put another way, the percentage of Phil-tone mouthpieces I've liked is way higher than the percentage of RPCs. That's not a put-down of Ron's work, it just reflects my personal taste the same as those who love Ron's work.
 

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Put another way, the percentage of Phil-tone mouthpieces I've liked is way higher than the percentage of RPCs. That's not a put-down of Ron's work, it just reflects my personal taste the same as those who love Ron's work.
Interestingly Ron and I start with a very similar blank and end up with very different mouthpieces. This is no different than two players playing the same setup and achieving different results. There is a lot of the refacer in the final way a mouthpiece is balanced. For this reason I have a hard time seeing a reworked RPC as an RPC. Of course there is more to a mouthpiece than a facing, there is the baffle, any chamber customization etc... that make a piece what it is. There is no absolute answer as to how far we can deviate from the original before it leaves behind the "Intended" meaning of the individual who designed or made it.
 

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J. Montgomery Grafton is the Master Craftsman behind each and every hand-crafted Graftonite. Some say that if you even put a mouthpiece patch on one, it's no longer a Graftonite -- an old-timer around here even says that merely putting a ligature on the thing robs it of its essential Graftoniteness…
 

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Interestingly Ron and I start with a very similar blank and end up with very different mouthpieces. This is no different than two players playing the same setup and achieving different results. There is a lot of the refacer in the final way a mouthpiece is balanced. For this reason I have a hard time seeing a reworked RPC as an RPC. Of course there is more to a mouthpiece than a facing, there is the baffle, any chamber customization etc... that make a piece what it is. There is no absolute answer as to how far we can deviate from the original before it leaves behind the "Intended" meaning of the individual who designed or made it.
So a refaced Phil-tone is not a Phil-tone either, but nobody feels obliged to point this out any time let alone each time "refaced Phil-tone" is mentioned.
 

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Reminds me of a college philosophy class...
You should have paid better attention because you're truly missing a rather simple point that has absolutely nothing to do with perfection in mouthpieces. It would be the same for a Lamberson or any other handfaced mouthpiece named for its finisher.
 

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Am I missing something? an RPC starts off as a blank which (and I could be wrong) is a rod of hard rubber that has had some shaping to make the outside of it the basic shape of a sax mouthpiece.

Ron takes this and makes the chamber and in doing so makes the baffle and then the facing?

So changing the facing is to me just a modification of Ron's work and not creating an entirely new mouthpiece from a blank.

Now you wouldn't take a modified mouthpiece back to Ron and say this ain't no good.

But you wouldn't give entire credit to the re-worker either.

So when I think that such a piece is a hybrid what am I missing?

I thinke a reworkerd RPC is a reworked RPC by some mouthpiece reworker and that it is different then a Phil Woods mouthpiece reworked by the same refacer but the origin also gets some of the credit and gets relieved of all of the responsibility.
 

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You should have paid better attention because you're truly missing a rather simple point that has absolutely nothing to do with perfection in mouthpieces. It would be the same for a Lamberson or any other handfaced mouthpiece named for its finisher.
So why spend $300 on an RPC to get it reworked if you can get the same result say by starting with a $125 Meyer and have it reworked?

The end result will be the same? right?
 
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