[JL]

Over the past couple of years I've been rotating reeds and while I haven't done anything close to a scientific experiment, it seems to me the reeds are lasting longer that way. I seem to get more playing time out of each individual reed. I'm not sure if it's just my imagination or not.

This sort of happened without any planning. I used to play one reed at a time. IOW, I'd find a good reed and play it until it died. I also tended to keep a couple other good reeds in reserve, but I played them one at a time until they wore out. But then at some point I found myself keeping 4 good reeds in the reed holder and then playing them almost at random. I'd play one for a gig or two, then pull out one of the others for the next gig, and so on. I generally practice either on new reeds that I'm 'breaking in' or old ones that still play but are a bit too worn to use on a gig or at a jam session. Using this method, it appears I'm getting more actual mileage out of each reed. I buy 3 boxes (of 10) at a time and those boxes seem to last me much longer than when I simply played each reed until it died.

So I'm wondering if there's any validity to this, if anyone has an idea why a reed might last longer in a rotation with other reeds (aside from the fact it's not getting played as much in the short term), and if anyone else has had this experience.

Could it be that a reed can stand more playing time, if it gets a 'rest' between uses? I should add that I always rinse my reeds after use and allow them to dry, then store them in a reed holder; I never had much success with keeping a reed moist in a 'humidifier' type of device.

Any thoughts?

 

[StanVI]

My guess is drying out...I’ve been rotating 12 for several years, and it’s rare that a reed dies...

 

[lydian]

I do think your experience is valid. My theory is, when you use the same reed every day, it never dries out completely, giving all the critters, enzymes and chemicals in your saliva more time to break down the wood fibers. If the reed is dry, most of those reactions slow down considerably or even stop. Rinsing helps a little in that it cleans the surface somewhat, but the majority is deeply soaked in.

Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to implement a rotation system and live with the shorter life. Still works out ok for an amateur like me who only practices a couple of times a week and averages only one gig per month. But I think a good rotation system would really benefit a working pro and save money in the long run.

 

[lostcircuits]

I just found the same, after a few hours, the reeds tend to get too soft and start curving up towards the MPC tip and even a short term (day or so) storage in the plastic package to "unwarp" them does not seem to help much but accidentally I picked a reed that had been sitting in my case for 4-6 weeks (don't remember the exact time) and it was better than I remembered. I tried another "end of life" reed that I kept "just in case" with the same result.

Like you, this is purely random, small sample-based, anecdotal evidence and no, I never had much luck with the humidifier either, the only thing that happens is that, depending on weather and relative humidity I start out with a reed that plays ok and then starts degrading or it is too floppy and never recovers.

My own measure for the correct amount of moisture is when I play and touch the reed with my tongue that it seems to "suck" on my tongue while bleeding on the back end (thick end).

Just observations ...

 

[canigoucat]

It's certainly my experience that reeds last longer if rotated. Strange, but they seem to benefit from a rest (like all of us). Rotating 3 or 4 seems to work best, but even alternating two gives better results than playing one till it dies IMHO.

 

[1saxman]

The only thing you're doing wrong is 'allowing the reed to dry then putting it in a reed holder'. Assuming you're talking about something that clamps or wedges the front half of the reed to hold it straight, the idea is you put a straight reed in and it dries straight. That means after washing or playing the reed, its ready to go straight into the holder where it will dry straight. it will still wrinkle when taken out and wetted, so the other secret is to wet it about half an hour or so before you will need it. Sometimes I will wet mine hours before I will need them because of traveling, whatever, and they're still ready to play.
As for the rotation, I have been doing that for at least 30 years but not in a really organized fashion. I just try a few reeds before the gig unless I get lucky and like the first one. I used to mark them with a grading system but I found that they don't stay true to it - A great one from last week might be a dog at the next gig.
Then I'll wash them in hydrogen peroxide every so often which really rejuvenates them. I put it in a flat plate or saucer, put maybe four reeds in and start scrubbing them with a toothbrush on both sides - amazing how dirty they get - then right back in the reed guard without rinsing.
Doing these things my reeds have lasted so long that the 'pith' between the fibers at the tip will be lost, leaving the pointed fibers exposed, which marks the end of the reed as far as I'm concerned. Other times, I've started with an old reed that seemed okay but it dies during the first set. This is why I always have my reed guard with me on stage. So, with the extended longevity goes increased risk of sudden failure. You just have to be prepared to trash a reed at the first suspicion of the coming failure, because trying to squeeze another gig out of one that's going down is poor economics considering how we all hate that nasty feeling that the reed is going down and we have to be cool until we can do a change. I think two or three gigs on a $3 reed is totally justifiable. I think everybody loves that 'new reed' feeling of confidence, and I'm sure we can all afford to keep it.

 

[lydian]

... I'll wash them in hydrogen peroxide every so often which really rejuvenates them.

Soap for cleaning the surface and alcohol for disinfecting would be better. Peroxide is kind of like bleach, a strong oxidizer that will break down the lignins in the fibers. So it's actually doing some damage. Soap, being caustic, also does some damage. So rinsing after cleaning would be best for longevity no matter what chemical you use to clean them.

 

[JL]

The only thing you're doing wrong is 'allowing the reed to dry then putting it in a reed holder'. Assuming you're talking about something that clamps or wedges the front half of the reed to hold it straight, the idea is you put a straight reed in and it dries straight. That means after washing or playing the reed, its ready to go straight into the holder where it will dry straight.

Yes, actually when I said I allow them to dry, I didn't mean dry completely before putting them in the reed holder. After a quick rinse, I generally just take excess water off the reed with a swipe on a towel (or my shirt) and then place it in the reed holder. I use a D-Addario holder that is ventilated, allowing them to dry while the tip is held flat. Seems to work great.

And what got me started rotating reeds in the first place was doing what you said--trying out 2 or 3 of them before the gig and picking the one that seems best. I don't do that all the time, but it's true that the one I consider best seems to change. Although I've never had a great reed turn into a dog suddenly. It happens gradually, but toward the 'end', it can be pretty sudden. And yeah, occasionally I try to squeeze one last gig out of a reed that has played great over time, but usually when the reed is getting worn and I've played it a lot, I consign it to the practice room where it can eventually die and get tossed out. Good tip about the peroxide treatment; think I'll give that go.*

Good to hear others find that rotating the reeds seems to help them last longer. Maybe my mind isn't playing tricks on me after all.

*p.s. Just say mdave's post above regarding peroxide. Maybe something like Listerine would be better? I'd rinse it good afterward in any case.

 

[GCinCT]

I do pretty much the same thing you do. Rotate 4 reeds, rinse them when I'm done and then pat them dry with a paper towel and put them in my reed holder. They definitely last longer and I practice pretty much every day.

 

[Jazz Is All]

I have been doing this for about 6 years now. Once I started playing in a weekly combo and 2 or 3 jams a week I couldn't just count on one good reed for each mpc I figured I'd need. So it just kind of happened that I started getting more reeds ready to play to have them ready to choose from in the afternoon of the gig. I would try out reeds for each of three mpcs I would repair in advance so as not to ever have to change a reed mid-song. What happened is that bit by bit the reeds lasted longer and I had more reeds in the box to take with me. I also found I liked to try different brands so I bought them and that gave me a wider selection of already tried/played reeds. Just like the rest of you it amazed me that they lasted so long because the attrition rate was very low. I never seemed to have reeds die from over playing but rather because I nicked the tip accidentally or a piece of the edge suddenly tore off or the coating of a Plasticover peeled off in blotches (swallowed no doubt) or the tip simply crumbled.

In this regard I have decided that the coating on Plasticover reeds makes them susceptible to just break or crumble at the tip because it doesn't allow them to absorb water or any moisture and hence they are always dry. In a dry climate this translates to being easily broken during handling and playing, in contrast to regular cane reeds which get bathed enough now and again to stay more supple and pliable. Just last week a plasticover that I had used a couple of years ago but not since actually had the tip crumble in little black pieces when I pressed the vamp down against the table to loosen it up. This is something I have done for years with all non-plastic reeds because it opens them up when they are new or newish and resistant. I read years ago that the old guys like Dexter did this and it works great. Just the pad of your thumb wet with saliva and you push it up from the vamp to the tip.

So when the plasticover crumbled I was like whoa man this is crazy. Then I recalled a wild gig about 4 years ago when I played half the night with my SS Berg 100 and a 3.5 plasticover and in the last tune I was growling away and really blowing away. When I got down and took the piece off I saw that the entire last bit of the tip edge was all chewed away and raggedy like it had been cut with pinking shears. Funny thing is that it didn't make a difference in my sound.

I thought I was the only guy who had boxes of 20 or more already played reeds (APR) for Alto and tenor to choose from until I saw David Murray at the Jamboree here 4 years ago. The guy was awesome and made me feel good because he plays a SS Berg that mine is similar to. Of course he's David Murray and I'm Joe Schmoe but anyway, he also did something else that warmed my heart. Partway through the first set he sat down on the edge of the stage right in front of me (I was in the front row) and proceeded to go through not one but two zip lock bags of previously used reeds in their plastic holders looking for one that was better than the one he was playing and obviously not happy with. I got such a kick out of that because I was doing that on my own without ever reading about it and here was a name pro doing the same damn thing. Awesome minds think alike.

 

[Jazz Is All]

I don't do that all the time, but it's true that the one I consider best seems to change. Although I've never had a great reed turn into a dog suddenly. It happens gradually, but toward the 'end', it can be pretty sudden.

Good to hear others find that rotating the reeds seems to help them last longer. Maybe my mind isn't playing tricks on me after all.

Exactly my experience about the good ones changing. I know it because I mark them with the initials of the mpc they go with, their quality...like ex(cellent) gd, okay, dud, ?, and also if they are good for altissimo (alt). Surprisingly they seem to somehow vary, like the other day when we had 2 solid days of rain and nothing I prewet played at all but the bone dry ones did, but not as marked.

No JL, you are not alone in this. It actually happens because reeds are living material and fickle material at that. Just like people and the higher rates of lunacy and hyper activity depression what have you on full moon and new moon nights, reeds are affected by the pull of the moon too.

 

[jlima]

Same experience here. I usually rotate between 8 and 12 reeds and they last a lifetime. Also, I have about additional 6 reeds that I tried about two months ago and that felt too soft, so I out them aside (each in their own reed container, outside of the box). Guess what: every one of them now plays well, although still not as well as a good harder reed. But simply staying out of the box for a month or two, after having been played for abut 3O minutes each or so seems to have helped them become more playable. So now I'm actually rotating about 16 reeds, which is a lot, but it seems to be working.

 

[Jazz Is All]

Same experience here. I usually rotate between 8 and 12 reeds and they last a lifetime. Also, I have about additional 6 reeds that I tried about two months ago and that felt too soft, so I out them aside (each in their own reed container, outside of the box). Guess what: every one of them now plays well, although still not as well as a good harder reed. But simply staying out of the box for a month or two, after having been played for abut 3O minutes each or so seems to have helped them become more playable. So now I'm actually rotating about 16 reeds, which is a lot, but it seems to be working.

I don't think that number is a big deal. Better being rotated than sitting in cold storage unborn in the sealed box. Free Willy and he will repay you with kindness. LOL

 

[lostcircuits]

*p.s. Just say mdave's post above regarding peroxide. Maybe something like Listerine would be better? I'd rinse it good afterward in any case.

I know some folks recommend soaking them in Bourbon, I tried alcohol-based mouthwash and the result was bad, the reed felt "brittle" and sounded like crap until it "recovered" which took a longer time than just moistening it. I had no desire to repeat it so maybe it was an outlier but just rinsing it off to get rid of the plaque, wiping it and then storing it in the reed holder is what works best for me. Closys also works fine.

 

[Jazz Is All]

I know some folks recommend soaking them in Bourbon, I tried alcohol-based mouthwash and the result was bad, the reed felt "brittle" and sounded like crap until it "recovered" which took a longer time than just moistening it. I had no desire to repeat it so maybe it was an outlier but just rinsing it off to get rid of the plaque, wiping it and then storing it in the reed holder is what works best for me. Closys also works fine.

Yeah, that sounds like what happened to me back when I read about putting them in jars with vodka to keep them moist. I don't drink vodka and never have so I went to the corner grocery and bought a half-pint of some unknown brand with a phoney Russian-sounding name notable only for being cheap. I put a few reeds in a jar to soak in the stuff and put it on a shelf under the sink. We must have had a vacation that week because I didn't remember the jar till a week and a half later. It was unreal. The reeds were all practically translucent white and looked like dead fish bellies. Drying them out didn't change anything much and I tossed them and decided all this reeds bottles stuff is a dumb waste of time.

 

[mmichel]

Soap for cleaning the surface and alcohol for disinfecting would be better. Peroxide is kind of like bleach, a strong oxidizer that will break down the lignins in the fibers. So it's actually doing some damage. Soap, being caustic, also does some damage. So rinsing after cleaning would be best for longevity no matter what chemical you use to clean them.

My experience does not agree with this (i.e., peroxide doing significant damage). I started soaking my reeds exclusively in a peroxide solution (3% drugstore peroxide diluted 1:1 with tap water) about a year ago, and this has made them last much longer.

I soak them in this solution for a few minutes before playing them and then again before putting them away (in an old Vandoren hygro case).

The reeds definitely get bleached over time, but they don't seem to suffer structurally from being immersed in peroxide.

 

[lostcircuits]

Yeah, that sounds like what happened to me back when I read about putting them in jars with vodka to keep them moist. I don't drink vodka and never have so I went to the corner grocery and bought a half-pint of some unknown brand with a phoney Russian-sounding name notable only for being cheap. I put a few reeds in a jar to soak in the stuff and put it on a shelf under the sink. We must have had a vacation that week because I didn't remember the jar till a week and a half later. It was unreal. The reeds were all practically translucent white and looked like dead fish bellies. Drying them out didn't change anything much and I tossed them and decided all this reeds bottles stuff is a dumb waste of time.

+1

 

[JL]

The reeds definitely get bleached over time, but they don't seem to suffer structurally from being immersed in peroxide.

Ok, good to know. I might try washing a reed with a toothbrush & peroxide and find out for myself what happens.

 

[mmichel]

Ok, good to know. I might try washing a reed with a toothbrush & peroxide and find out for myself what happens.

Yeah, I'd recommend trying it for yourself.

FWIW, I'm no chemist, but the introduction to this paper (and similar resources that are not freely available online) suggests that hydrogen peroxide is often used as a mild bleach for wood pulp (e.g., in papermaking) specifically because it selectively attacks chromatophoric (pigment-containing) components of lignin while preserving the strength and integrity of the pulp fibers.

 

[extradarcafe]

Haven't had time to read all the comments above, but is it safe to assume clockwise in the northern and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?