Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Kindly youtube instructors say that one's embouchure merely be more carefully applied. all i know is when i sit in front of the laptop, watching the frequency meter as i play, i got to roll it out slightly down in the low end, and roll it in just a little for the higher notes. i got no shame about dialing in a little autotune when i record, but it also seems to me that the lowest end is easier to play rolled out, and the high end seems a little less shrill rolled in. i don't know.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,329 Posts
Rolling the flute changes the amount of embouchure hole covered, which changes the pitch. It also changes the length of the air jet, which is involved in production of the octaves. However these are adjustments that should be made by lip position and embouchure, not by physically rolling the flute, if you are serious about learning to play the instrument decently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,262 Posts
I was playing my alto flute too much rolled in, which caused a lot of intonation problems. I think, the correct position should be, that the bottom end is more or less in tune. If the second and third octave is too sharp then, you have something to work on (air pressure, playing angle, relaxiation of the embouchure, voicing ...).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,424 Posts
Rolling the flute changes the amount of embouchure hole covered, which changes the pitch. It also changes the length of the air jet, which is involved in production of the octaves. However these are adjustments that should be made by lip position and embouchure, not by physically rolling the flute, if you are serious about learning to play the instrument decently.
I totally agree.
It took my 4th teacher to stop the rolling and show me how to stay in tune by changing lip position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,357 Posts
Setting the hj exactly right will also help to alleviate the need to roll as well. For awhile I was setting mine slightly offset towards myself and a small correction gave a big result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,424 Posts
Setting the hj exactly right will also help to alleviate the need to roll as well. For awhile I was setting mine slightly offset towards myself and a small correction gave a big result.
That's right.
Hold the flute away from your mouth and balance it between the crook of the left index finger and the right thumb and little finger on the D# key.
The keys will be turned out rather than perfectly horizontal,
So to get that angle the head has to be turned in some.
This will help from having to actively hold the flute from rolling in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,537 Posts
My flute teacher at Univ. of Maine had me place flute on my chin and sort of think of reaching my lips to blow (on regular flute at least). Was helpful for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
thanks all for your advice. i surely will give it a try. (old dog, new tricks.) i gotta say, i never noticed the pitch change on a regular c flute. but there is no denying the graduated pitch change from sharp to flat on the alto. but i do prefer the voice of the bigger flute.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,424 Posts
thanks all for your advice. i surely will give it a try. (old dog, new tricks.) i gotta say, i never noticed the pitch change on a regular c flute. but there is no denying the graduated pitch change from sharp to flat on the alto. but i do prefer the voice of the bigger flute.
You should try a bass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
You should try a bass.
played one at Chuck Levin's once, when i was trying out altos. if they weren't so pricey... meanwhile, i rationalize that the G touches on aspects of both the lower and higher C. (but definitely some GAS lurking.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,586 Posts
I haven't played alto flute in years, had a beautiful Geimenhardt alto with the domed key cups and sterling silver head joint. Played beautifully but it was difficult to double with at times. I found that the relaxed embouchure was a must up until G2 and even then you couldn't draw in your embouchure too much; it kind of was a slightly looser approach that worked best for me in the second octave range up to D3. I just might get one again someday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Alto is sexiest flute.Tried a Kingma alto, the best and most expensive.
like $12-$20 grand? yikes. there is a guy in town who makes wooden head joints which i thought i'd give a try, given a post I read here a few years ago from Bootman. i couldn't hear much in the way of benefit, though i didn't record it. i called the music shop where i bought the Sonare back when, not to complain obviously, but to ask about a viable alternative in that price range. i could have been talked into some ready business, but he told me flat out that i wasn't going to do any better for less than silly money, and even then, nothing dramatic. same from the woman who replaced some pads last year, and who studied the big flutes in school. (though i should give her a call as i try some of this lip stretching stuff!!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,424 Posts
I talked to Eva Kingma for over an hour at a flute show, really cool person.
Lives and breathes big flutes.
Sent my bass head from my custom Deford flute made for me by him and his grandson Brian Bertrem.
She put her custom embouchure plate on as a replacement for the original.
$1500.00 and makes it much more playable and loud.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
She put her custom embouchure plate on as a replacement for the original.
$1500.00 and makes it much more playable and loud.
wow. $1500 is just less than I paid for my alto. which is articulate. the low end is loud and sweet. the high end is louder and a little shrill. the wooden headjoint i tried, which was a little more than i paid for the alto, didn't seem any warmer on the high end. so i'm guessing that problem is all me. fortunately, it's mostly the low register i wanted it for.

(stunning just how much precision is required for some professional level instruments. saxes are a veritable bargain compared to flutes, english horns, vintage synths, etc.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
OK, i'm bumping this with an update. as posted elsewhere, it looks like my geezernes is pushing the alto onto me as my main breathy axe. i mentioned that i had consulted a young lady who specialized in large flutes for her music degree. she said she rolled the alto in when she approached the 3rd register. and that anything over E-flat is dicey, given how shrill the harmonics are on the high notes as they go sharp. so i'm spending time working on my roll, comparing flute notes with an electronic piano. trying to dial it in, between 2nd register A through 3rd register G. my mate, the main complaintent of my trending shrill now says she's no longer irritated. maybe just humoring me, so next i'll mic it through the DAW and watch the meter, and record, of course, to hear how it lies with other instruments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
I totally agree.
It took my 4th teacher to stop the rolling and show me how to stay in tune by changing lip position.
Yes. In Trevor Wye's flute Tone book he basically says that too, plus moving your head up and down. I also have his alto flute practice book but have only skimmed through it so don't know if it's different for alto but I assume it's the same.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top