[widetrack]

I don't know if this is the right forum for this question, but since there's no "Anti-rock Sax" sub-forum, I'm gonna start here, anyway.

Most of my long-ago pro playing was in rock and the blues. So I got away with what I will charitably call a "primitive" approach. I'm not proud of it, but it served our ultimate ends.

I'm currently working up an act that will certainly be "rock" of various sorts, but will, I hope, appeal to somewhat more sophisticated ears. So I need to make my playing sound more contemporary, and a degree more musically advanced.

I got my scales and chords down pretty well (though never well enough, lord knows). I am working on mixing in major and minor pentatonics and chromatic with regular maj and min scales. But when I record what I do, it still sounds rather crude.

So 2 questions:

1. Who can I listen to that plays what could be called contemporary pop / rock / blues / jazz sax?

2. Can anyone suggest any technical things I can begin working on to make my playing more modern and (musically) sophisticated?

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[JL]

I'll let others advise you on contemporary pop/rock/blues/jazz, but just a couple of thoughts that your post gave me:

I don't see contemporary and 'musically sophisticated' as equivalent. Old school blues & jazz was certainly sophisticated and required just as much ability and knowledge to sound good, and not sound crude, as anything contemporary. So I'm a bit confused about that part of your post. If you're talking about the blues, I think you have to look back to the jump blues era of the late '40s/early '50s to find the basis of a 'sophisticated' urban-style blues. Jazz hasn't gotten more harmonically sophisticated or complex since the '60s, although it has branched out in some different directions. But that's just my opinion. As to pop and rock, I don't hear anything contemporary that I'd want to play so I can't help you there.

In general, the better you can play your instrument, the better you'll sound. But of course you also have to learn the stylistic elements of whatever genre you want to play. I think the way to do that part is to listen to & play along to (transcribe) the music you want to play.

 

[Grumps]

Rock and roll saxophone, and expecially pop, is more about sound than technical ability. No one wants to hear jazz licks/scales by a sax player in rock and roll... except maybe the player himself. But with that said, you can still walk the line keeping the spirit of rock/blues/pop while showcasing a bit of your technical ability. Have a listen to Bob Reynolds (a member of SOTW) on Jonah Smith's Beneath the Underdog CD. Here's a taste of it:

 

[Neil Sharpe]

I'd be interested in your practical definition of "sophisticated ears" and what constituted a " 'primitive' approach" but aside from that, as we know, no matter what styles of music we are playing, tone is tone and sound is sound.

When you speak of "rock" and "blues", as JL has noted, many of the great tones and sounds are found in artists from the 1940's-60's who played jump and swing, "rock n' roll", r&b, blues, and soul. SOTW's "Blues, R&B, Rock n' Roll Teaching Resource" reviews the "technical things" that can help you build a distinctive tone and sound that will cut through any style of music. The "Recommended Resources" section also reviews earlier threads that discuss these issues including equipment setups.

In terms of getting gigs and calls, it certainly helps to be versatile, however rock and jazz don't mix well. As Jon R. Smith (who has played with a wide variety of artists) noted:
"...remember, you don't have to say a lot to say something! A great sax player may be capable of riffing off a whole ton of notes, but they also know that sometimes a very few notes is all that needs to be said.

When I go into a session for jazz, I'm going to play a solo that fits the music, sometimes a more modern sound with straight tones and sometimes no vibrato. But, if it's blues gospel, I'll use techniques like vibrato and growl. This approach has led to recordings with a wide array of musical artists such as Sarah Vaughn, Randy Newman, Peter Maffay, Rick Derringer, Junior Wells, and Sonny Landreth. And that's another thing. Know your limitations. Great r&b players don't try to be jazz players and vice versa. I've seen some jazz players come in and play bebop riffs over r&b and rock n' roll. They're playing way outside the music and not fitting into it. It's a mess. Fit yourself into the music and get the ego out of the way."
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Rock_n_Roll/Jon-Smith-1.html

 

[MartinMusicMan]

As Jon R. Smith noted: "Know your limitations. Great r&b players don't try to be jazz players and vice versa. I've seen some jazz players come in and play bebop riffs over r&b and rock n' roll. They're playing way outside the music and not fitting into it. It's a mess. Fit yourself into the music and get the ego out of the way."

Perfect. I have thought this many times. I could not have said it better.

 

[Neil Sharpe]

Here are a couple of threads that may be of interest in terms of more recent rock et al.
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...Roll-Sax-The-Last-Ten-Years-Who-s-Interesting

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...-the-saxophone-in-Rock-amp-Roll-music../page8

 

[widetrack]

Thank you to everyone who responded. The thoughts and words of the people on this forum are unequalled in their knowledge and experience, and I appreciate all the input I can get.

I am digging in to all your suggestions.

 

[widetrack]

A few thoughts

Grumps: Thank you for posting that cut. It’s a perfect example of what I’ve been looking for. I downloaded it and am going to dig in and figure out what he’s doing.

Neil:
Thank you too for the links and the ideas. The terms I used didn’t apply to the older schools you mention, or to anyone else at all. They applied to my perception of my own limitations. I learned on my own, and always had several holes in my understanding and technique. As I learn some scalar and chromatic ideas, I’m figuring out what I’ve lacked, and what I plan to learn.

I just diecovered Bernie Kennerson’s youtube lessons on bebop scales and chromatics and am working on learning them and working them into my playing as the music allows.

Jon Smith is a monster, undoubtedly, and his ideas have great weight.

But I’m not convinced with his absolute separation of rock and jazz. I hear the Bob Reynolds solo or the approach Jon Scofield took on his Ray Charles tribute, and I hear a lot of mixing of styles. They sound great to me.

I figure it’s worth a try.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[Grumps]

Grumps: Thank you for posting that cut. It's a perfect example of what I've been looking for. I downloaded it and am going to dig in and figure out what he's doing.

Check out his site as well. It's most informative:

http://bobreynoldsmusic.com