Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
P Mauriat Factory, and out-sourced factory Tour, and Taiwanese hand made saxophone production report.

I am in Taiwan. It is 3 am in the morning. I have been here for 2 days now, at the invitation of Alex Hsesh from P Mauriat saxophones. Yes I have some jet lag, but also my mind has been somewhat ‘blown’ by my experiences so far, and I just cannot sleep. I am directly thinking about yesterday. It was a mind-blowing experience. Accompanied by Eric Chang, of P Mauriat, I had the absolute honor of visiting many of the factories used to produce P Mauriat saxophones. I went where no NZ Tenorman has gone before!. We traveled by high-speed train, deep in to Taiwan, to the System 76 factory. This is where the system 76 saxophones are exclusively made. This factory is 100 percent dedicated to the production and refinement and development of the system 76 range. Here we met the chief technician and manager of the 76 factory--- an extraordinary man of ability and intelligence. He took us through the factory, and we saw the various stages in the 76 production. He showed us how they raised the tone holes straight from the body—unbelievable- they start with the cylindrical saxophone body (no neck or bell), and cut out are form the body are small tear shaped holes . These are much smaller than the tone hole they become, but what happens is this precision machine somehow, stretches the metal up out of the body into the tone holes. No soldering here!! It’s all true! I also had a nice chat to Patric, the quality control man, and professional sax player. His job is to test every P Mauriat saxophone for quality control. Good for the chops!! The 76 factory seemed to only have about 10 -12 people working and assembling the horns. A very small affair, but it seems like a lot of love and pride goes into the production.
For the rest of the day he accompanied us, driving us all over the country, visiting many other factories outsourced for P Mauriat production I went even further out into the country, to the bell factory. This is the biggest bell factory in Taiwan, and here they make the Le Bravo and student model P Mauriat range bells and body tube (and many other Taiwanese saxophone brands also) This was a real honor. In one room there was a man hand beating tenor bells, another room a man was hammering out the alto bells, and in another room a man was making the Baritone bells. They made the bells from a template metal sheet which was then beaten into submission (about 400 whacks per bell I am told!) It seems hard to believe that in this day and age that saxophones are actually getting hand made. Well it is true here in Taiwan! I have seen it with my very eyes! I also went to another major factory outsourced by P Mauriat. In this factory the P Mauriat 66,86,67 range are made to an exclusive P Mauriat patent. The factory was about 2-3 times the size of the 76 factory, but I still would say no more than 20 staff. It was good to see with my very own eyes what actually goes on. Yes, in this factory other orders/ brands are made (if they have time- I played some of them!), but the P Mauriat exclusively patented saxophones make up about 80% of their production. This knowledge has given me some good clarity on the subject, after reading plenty of rumors on various saxophone web forums! The factory owner here also was incredibly skilled and gracious, and very curious to my opinions. He had me testing mouthpieces, necks and saxophones for him. I think he must have agreed with my conclusions!, because soon I had the honor of a factory tour!
I saw them raise and make the rolled tone holes—totally unbelievable. This was a real privilege. One man and a machine, once again rolled op out of the body. I was not allowed to video this process, but it is true. Just as I was leaving, I asked how the engraving was done. The factory owner grabbed a P Mauriat 67 bell and took me to a bench, and demonstrated himself. Tools? 3 X chisels, a template stamp and a very strong arm. I was told that no man could last more than 4-5 years as an engraver as they get repetitive strain injury. He is an absolute MASTER technician, and one of the very few people in the world to use both left and right arms for engraving (meaning extra detail) It took him about 20-30 minutes of solid skilled work to finish one bell. No machine here—only chisels and a very strong arm. I also went to the factory assembly workshop, and watched the soldering by hand of all posts, keys, and rods to the bodies. Just one room, and maybe 10 people.
Another factory I went to was the lacquer factory, where a man (I hope they pay him well!!) wears nothing but a breathing mask hand sprays the keys on a huge convener belt. I hope he does not do this job for too long!


You know—the thing is, that I have read the brochure, and seen P Mauriats web site, and honestly, I have never really concerned how these saxophones were made. It has always been the quality and fantastic sound that has impressed me. However, now I know what really happens, and I have to say, it is nice to know that its all true, and perhaps all the love and human effort that goes into all P Mauriat saxophones, even the student models, helps explain why these horns play, look, feel and sound so good.

PS---If you check out my you tube videos below, please excuse my hand held do it your self video technique. There are some pretty bad great shots of my mouth and face but good shots of everything else! I also have many other video clips, and hope to make a complete edited video when I have time
Here are links with clips of various saxophone making processes

Bell Beating clip 1 and 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0W0wFyOfGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCP3rHWY9Wo

System 76 Factory Straight Tone Hole making and general assembly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i65C9b9FKk

System 76 Factory General assembly and saxophone testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3CC25w7jG4

Saxophone Lacquer Factory—

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrm7fC2lFyg

Bell engraving of a 67uL Clip 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXtgg98Gzn0

Bell engraving of a 67—Final product

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ActRnd315Ww

66.67.86 factory assembly line and general


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsC3rMnmDFw


Roger Manins 3.7.2011
Taipei, Taiwan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
This is great! I wish there were videos like this for every brand. Are the 66,86,67 models all made exclusively in the factory you mentioned?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, to my knowledge all the 67,66,86, 87 and related models soprano, alto and tenors ( prob Baris too but I am not certain) are all made there. The 2 types of top P Mauriat professional models are the System 76-- Only built in the mauriat factory dedicated to the 76,, and the 67 66 and related range, which are in the 2nd factory. The bells and bodies of both types are are rolled and beaten at other factories which I did not get to see, then sent there for tone hole making, keys etc etc and finishing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It took 25 MIN hard labour just for the bell, but not the body or neck. He does not do it personally any more as the work is too hard, ( gets the young guys to do it!!) and it messes up your hands if you do it too long. He just did the one for me. I would guess that if you got through 20-40 in a day you would be going well!
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
P Mauriat Factory, and out-sourced factory Tour, and Taiwanese hand made saxophone production report.

I am in Taiwan. It is 3 am in the morning. I have been here for 2 days now, at the invitation of Alex Hsesh from P Mauriat saxophones. Yes I have some jet lag, but also my mind has been somewhat ‘blown’ by my experiences so far, and I just cannot sleep.

I am directly thinking about yesterday. It was a mind-blowing experience. Accompanied by Eric Chang, of P Mauriat, I had the absolute honor of visiting many of the factories used to produce P Mauriat saxophones. I went where no NZ Tenorman has gone before!. We traveled by high-speed train, deep in to Taiwan, to the System 76 factory. This is where the system 76 saxophones are exclusively made. This factory is 100 percent dedicated to the production and refinement and development of the system 76 range.

Here we met the chief technician and manager of the 76 factory--- an extraordinary man of ability and intelligence. He took us through the factory, and we saw the various stages in the 76 production. He showed us how they raised the tone holes straight from the body—unbelievable- they start with the cylindrical saxophone body (no neck or bell), and cut out are form the body are small tear shaped holes . These are much smaller than the tone hole they become, but what happens is this precision machine somehow, stretches the metal up out of the body into the tone holes. No soldering here!! It’s all true!

I also had a nice chat to Patric, the quality control man, and professional sax player. His job is to test every P Mauriat saxophone for quality control. Good for the chops!!

The 76 factory seemed to only have about 10 -12 people working and assembling the horns. A very small affair, but it seems like a lot of love and pride goes into the production.

For the rest of the day he accompanied us, driving us all over the country, visiting many other factories outsourced for P Mauriat production I went even further out into the country, to the bell factory. This is the biggest bell factory in Taiwan, and here they make the Le Bravo and student model P Mauriat range bells and body tube (and many other Taiwanese saxophone brands also) This was a real honor. In one room there was a man hand beating tenor bells, another room a man was hammering out the alto bells, and in another room a man was making the Baritone bells. They made the bells from a template metal sheet which was then beaten into submission (about 400 whacks per bell I am told!)

It seems hard to believe that in this day and age that saxophones are actually getting hand made. Well it is true here in Taiwan! I have seen it with my very eyes!

I also went to another major factory outsourced by P Mauriat. In this factory the P Mauriat 66,86,67 range are made to an exclusive P Mauriat patent. The factory was about 2-3 times the size of the 76 factory, but I still would say no more than 20 staff. It was good to see with my very own eyes what actually goes on. Yes, in this factory other orders/ brands are made (if they have time- I played some of them!), but the P Mauriat exclusively patented saxophones make up about 80% of their production.

This knowledge has given me some good clarity on the subject, after reading plenty of rumors on various saxophone web forums! The factory owner here also was incredibly skilled and gracious, and very curious to my opinions. He had me testing mouthpieces, necks and saxophones for him. I think he must have agreed with my conclusions!, because soon I had the honor of a factory tour!

I saw them raise and make the rolled tone holes—totally unbelievable. This was a real privilege. One man and a machine, once again rolled op out of the body. I was not allowed to video this process, but it is true.

Just as I was leaving, I asked how the engraving was done. The factory owner grabbed a P Mauriat 67 bell and took me to a bench, and demonstrated himself. Tools? 3 X chisels, a template stamp and a very strong arm. I was told that no man could last more than 4-5 years as an engraver as they get repetitive strain injury. He is an absolute MASTER technician, and one of the very few people in the world to use both left and right arms for engraving (meaning extra detail) It took him about 20-30 minutes of solid skilled work to finish one bell. No machine here—only chisels and a very strong arm. I also went to the factory assembly workshop, and watched the soldering by hand of all posts, keys, and rods to the bodies. Just one room, and maybe 10 people.

Another factory I went to was the lacquer factory, where a man (I hope they pay him well!!) wears nothing but a breathing mask hand sprays the keys on a huge convener belt. I hope he does not do this job for too long!

You know—the thing is, that I have read the brochure, and seen P Mauriats web site, and honestly, I have never really concerned how these saxophones were made. It has always been the quality and fantastic sound that has impressed me. However, now I know what really happens, and I have to say, it is nice to know that its all true, and perhaps all the love and human effort that goes into all P Mauriat saxophones, even the student models, helps explain why these horns play, look, feel and sound so good.

PS---If you check out my you tube videos below, please excuse my hand held do it your self video technique. There are some pretty bad great shots of my mouth and face but good shots of everything else! I also have many other video clips, and hope to make a complete edited video when I have time
Here are links with clips of various saxophone making processes

Roger Manins 3.7.2011
Taipei, Taiwan
Wow, what a heck of an experience! And thanks so much for the follow-up above. That was not only very thoughtful of you, it was very informative. Thanks!

(Just editing so I can read it easier, nothing more than that. Not making a statement, just can't read run-on paragraphs.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Their factory worker is really horny. Room is full of the woman poster.

And now even they are opening admiting that they out source most of the production in other people's factory. It is funny, because just a while ago, they are still insisting on 100% Pm exclusive and 100% PM factory.

Thanks Roger for showing the truth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Thanks very much for the great report on your tour and for the videos you posted. I think they really help people to see what P.Mauriat is all about and show how much hands-on care goes into every P.Mauriat saxophone!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Their factory worker is really horny. Room is full of the woman poster.

And now even they are opening admiting that they out source most of the production in other people's factory. It is funny, because just a while ago, they are still insisting on 100% Pm exclusive and 100% PM factory.

Thanks Roger for showing the truth.
I think most (if not all) Taiwan makers use several different "factories" for their horns and steps in the process. Its been going on for years and wont stop any time soon. I have a few "off brand" taiwan horns that are just as good as PM at half the cost.
But PM does make a nice horn :)

Thanks for the insightful video and information
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Hi Roger. Thanks again for sharing. Do you have any pic or video of the REAL maurit factory? upon reading, it seems that all these video are actually of all the factories that is OEMing for PM and NOT PM's own factory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
So if the Real mauriat factoty is the "76 factory", are the rest of the factories you show are fake?
No matter what, real or fake, they do have a lot of famous endorsees who work for them. I guess that has to count for some credit....:):):)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Nothing is Fake. All major manufacturers out source-- Toyota cars, BMW, Mercedes etc etc. MIssion speakers use viva tweeters etc etc etc- its the way of the world-- and a way of achieving quality, and making it all possible. For a new company to start from scratch-- every process from the very beginning is impossible. ( or astronomically expensive) What is needed is vision-- the vision and desire to make the best horns-- and I can tell you that this is Alex H's ( Mauruat's boss) vision. He is a saxophone nut! Great players endorse these horns because they are great, and there is a great, strong vision behind them which drives their continual refinement and evolution
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
[Nothing is Fake. All major manufacturers out source-- Toyota cars, BMW, Mercedes etc etc. MIssion speakers use viva tweeters etc etc etc- its the way of the world-- and a way of achieving quality, and making it all possible. For a new company to start from scratch-- every process from the very beginning is impossible. ( or astronomically expensive) What is needed is vision-- the vision and desire to make the best horns-- and I can tell you that this is Alex H's ( Mauruat's boss) vision. He is a saxophone nut! Great players endorse these horns because they are great, and there is a great, strong vision behind them which drives their continual refinement and evolution ]

Well spoken Roger and very true! Mauriat is constantly trying to imrove and refine their instruments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
So if the Real mauriat factoty is the "76 factory", are the rest of the factories you show are fake?
No matter what, real or fake, they do have a lot of famous endorsees who work for them. I guess that has to count for some credit....:):):)
Bule Jass, I think everyone knows that mauriat just started their own factory and most of their products are outsourced. Just like Roger said, all major brands out source. Most of brands starts with their own factory and only starts outsourcing when cost gets to high. PM has gone the opposite as it's more of an marketing company rather than manufacture. A lot of PM's ad is just marketing gimmick and the product is overpriced, but there is no such thing as fake factory. All those factories does indeed makes PM's sax and other brands sax. If any, it's just the way how the video is being presented.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
I am trying to watch the videos but it is telling me that the videos are private and thorefore I am not able to watch them. Anyway you can help me with that? I really would love to see these videos.

Thank you
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2008
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
Nothing is Fake. All major manufacturers out source-- Toyota cars, BMW, Mercedes etc etc. MIssion speakers use viva tweeters etc etc etc- its the way of the world-- and a way of achieving quality, and making it all possible. For a new company to start from scratch-- every process from the very beginning is impossible. ( or astronomically expensive) What is needed is vision-- the vision and desire to make the best horns-- and I can tell you that this is Alex H's ( Mauruat's boss) vision. He is a saxophone nut! Great players endorse these horns because they are great, and there is a great, strong vision behind them which drives their continual refinement and evolution
No problem with that. But at this point we have more accreditation of the statement of some sellers claiming their units are "same as P.Mauriat". From now on any statement "Same as SOME P.Mauriat models" can be taken for real and P.Mauriat owners might have very little evidence to start legal action against those.
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top