Your comment is of course valid, but perhaps it is you who have missed the mark. The thread isn't about maintaining the historical correctness of a vintage horn, nor is it about endeavoring to keep as much original accessories or documentation as possible for valuation reasons. Nor is it necessarily about grail horns as sought after and wildly priced as VI's. Nor is it about making any permanent change to an existing intact combo neck + body.This discussion is missing the mark, #17 and #20. I collect saxophones and am very reluctant to buy a vintage horn that had only a replacement neck. It may play, it may even play better than the original, but it's not part of the horn. Having original case, original mouthpiece, original papers makes it even more valuable as a collectable. I do in fact have a M6 tenor with original and replacement necks in which the added neck works better.
Well, believe it or not, I'd say 98+% of the membership here on SOTW are players and not collectors and I quite frankly think it's laughable that you think this discussion is "missing the mark". Oh and necks need to be replaced from time to time? Like what, maybe 2%? A saxophone neck doesn't "wear out". The biggest reason people seek aftermarket necks are because they think it'll change their sound or how the horn responds. Or most likely because some ham fisted idiot tried to do a repair on a neck or the neck tenon and ruined it. As a professional player, I value sound and how the horn plays far more than having original papers and the freaking case.This discussion is missing the mark, #17 and #20. I collect saxophones and am very reluctant to buy a vintage horn that had only a replacement neck. It may play, it may even play better than the original, but it's not part of the horn. Having original case, original mouthpiece, original papers makes it even more valuable as a collectable. I do in fact have a M6 tenor with original and replacement necks in which the added neck works better.
And of course makers and after-market makers sell replacement necks. Necks are small and easily damaged. They do need to be replaced from time to time. Which is what makes an antique horn with original neck more valuable.
Or you have have a mark that is looking for a discussion. :shock:This discussion is missing the mark, #17 and #20. I collect saxophones...
Have an original lacquer day! :bluewink:Correct me if I'm wrong, but, how can a company make a neck and market it for several different makes/models of horns? From what I gather, they basically say "Adjust the tenon to fit your horn and off you go!"
I was under the impression that different sax makes/models have slightly different lengths/curves etc... things I would think could affect tuning and what not?
Is it as simple as "adjust the tenon and go"?
The neck of your saxophone has a huge influence on sound and playability. daCarbo uses the freedom offered by carbon fiber alignment and composite construction in building its instruments not to cut down on weight, but primarily to optimize the instrument's vibration. It becomes possible to suppress those vibrations in the tube that simply waste energy.
"The energy loss in the air column" is due to imperfections in inner surface of the wall material. Roughness, porosity, or leaks to the outside atmosphere are all ways that sound energy is lost along with the "heat losses" that naturally occur even when the surface is perfectly smooth. The suggestion that the "carbon fiber alignment" in the material the neck is made of has an influence over "energy loss" has no scientific basis whatsoever. I have the greatest respect for Curt Altarac and the staff at Music Medic for their contributions to the industry, but these statements demonstrate a basic lack of understanding of acoustic principles.Instrument-makers, engineers, acoustic designers and musicians have worked together intensively to minimize the energy loss in the air column, where the sound is generated. Resulting in necks that are remarkably easy to play also in the highest and lowest registers at supreme sound quality. They allow excellent articulation and direct control. The sound of the saxophone opens up, allowing a better projection.
What its unreasonable about the KB necks? Is it the assumption that a craftsman work in Western Europe or the US tries to break barely even by offering something that fewer individuals than can be counted on the fingers of one hand can make? My Jessen necks weren't much less expensive at the time I purchased them, worth every dime and run circles around the stock Selmer necks (one damage from the prior owner) that they replaced. Glöger seems to have dropped the prices on his significantly, but perhaps there is some sort of automation involved by now. BTW, none of these guys, or Boesken for that matter makes a one-fit-all neck.
My apologies for triggering your emotions with a poor choice of word. I meant "affordable".What its unreasonable about the KB necks?
Indeed....how about keeping an open mind?
Yup...that is exactly the contradiction there.John, I suspect that the ad text for the daCarbo necks is from the manufacturer, rather than Music Medic. It seems hypocritical to sell one-size-fits-all necks on the same site that professes the benefits of making necks for a particular model (ex. necks by Wilmington and Gloger), but that is a business and marketing decision. MM advertises necks by Saxgourmet as well.
This is a hard one...and I understand your argument and as a guy who has spent his entire life in the field of craftsmanship and creative arts, I wholeheartedly agree with you as far as why our culture should value craftspeople as much as, say, 'white collar' professionals. It is quite galling.What its unreasonable about the KB necks? Is it the assumption that a craftsman work in Western Europe or the US tries to break barely even by offering something that fewer individuals than can be counted on the fingers of one hand can make? My Jessen necks weren't much less expensive at the time I purchased them, worth every dime and run circles around the stock Selmer necks (one damage from the prior owner) that they replaced. Glöger seems to have dropped the prices on his significantly, but perhaps there is some sort of automation involved by now. BTW, none of these guys, or Boesken for that matter makes a one-fit-all neck.
I wonder how many members on this forum would want similar caustic comments attached to their work without proper comparison. I have got zippo against a mass manufactured neck made in anywhere in the world providing the workers are properly treated and paid and the products not made with deleterious effects to the environment (major ifs). And who knows, it might play just as well, but there is probably a fair amount of trial an error involved to find something or perhaps rather anything that does. For the KB sax shop, one can actually walk into a brick and mortar store with a huge selection and try before buying. That is rent slapped on top of something handmade in NYC.
Unless people have actually tried high end aftermarket necks, and found them to be thoroughly disappointing (mostly there appears to be great enthusiasm), how about keeping an open mind? Crazy monies are spent on mouthpieces made new, vintage and then often refaced. New, high-end, saxes are made with flaws that necessitate major repairs, when they should require nothing besides minor adjustment and a pad change or two in the first decade. Perhaps doing something focused and really well to fit a niche that is really important for how a sax plays commands a bit of appreciation and respect, even if the cost to make it happen is not trivial.
Absurd in your opinion. I did exactly this for a Super Action 80(I) tenor when it was sold to me many years ago through eBay and turned out to be blatantly misrepresented. Palo Tung put it back in magnificent shape, but the neck had suffered severe pulldown. That is how I got into aftermarket necks and I am very happy with the neck I ended up with. Had I not gotten bitten by the sax bug on SOTW, I would have been perfectly happy with this tenor and never looked for another. I agree with you that it probably didn't make sense in terms of resale value, but that is hardly all there is to it. By that account, nobody with a Buescher, Martin or numerous other brands should ever look for a replacement neck. From my point of view, the monetary value of these makes is below what they are really worth and it is a pity that they are not more appreciated. In any case, buying an expensive aftermarket neck is an option; not something that is a must or anyone is forced to.~ When a horn has a market value of ..say...$1500-3000...which could describe the value of many folks' horns...the idea of spending $1200 on an aftermarket neck...can be argued to be a bit absurd.
That is a fair point but it really has no bearing on the craftsmen, who make this out of passion and serve unmet needs.Other problem is, as has been mentioned numerous times on this thread....it can sometimes be hard to discern those folks who truly have a passion and have endeavored to produce engineered, targeted necks...and those who really are just dressing up their asian-factory produced (no serious design development) necks with rosy marketing claims. (The Dr's example is a great one: same shop selling one brand of neck which claims to be specifically engineered for particular models, and another brand which claims its revolutionary product works on any model when simply provided with the appropriate tenon).