Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Advanced string players have to replace the strings on their instrument on a regular basis to maintain a good tone since they lose their "harmonicity" over time as a result of being stretched.
Really? I should think that the primary reason to lose "harmonicity" is due to imperfections that change the distribution of mass from an ideally homogeneous distribution - "aging" defects would include wear, corrosion, etc. If the string were maintained under tension in an inert environment with no accumulation of wear, the deformation mechanism would be creep, and I would suspect that is a very slow process (decades?) at typical stresses and temperatures. It would be interesting to see some data on that, and to see how well the experiments are controlled.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Not arguing one way or the other but to your point, most high end guitar strings are sold in air tight pouches, I always thought that some of the grime from the fingers (even if you wash your hands) goes in between the windings and causes some dampening of the higher frequencies (harmonics), not to mention corrosion in the areas of the string that is played most. Definitely an interesting subject. And I know first hand that Martin Titanium core guitar strings sound awful :)
I've have airtight pouches for bulk strings, but most string sets (Ernie Ball, John Pearse, for instance) usually come in paper sleeves. On wound strings, I agree that grime accumulation is one factor - another is wear of the windings. And now that I live in a more humid environment, I am actually witnessing mild corrosion with time. Ever use Elixirs? They sound like they are a week old when new, but they stay that way for quite a while.

There's no reason to use a titanium core for a string - steel is great - although I could come up with many reasons NOT to select it. FWIW, I maintain that Ti is a lousy candidate for most any part of a saxophone.

Cheers!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
I am certainly not an expert on stringed instruments. What I wrote was told to me by the string specialist who was an accomplished violinist at the music store where I worked. Benade's Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics has several chapters on stringed instruments and the acoustic behavior of vibrating strings. It is quite possible that there are several causes involved when a string loses its tone and response and has to be replaced.
How, then, can pianos work so long? Their string tension is certainly high.

What's different? The lack of environmental distress caused by human touch?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Back to your original point, tho’, I once tried a Selmer Sterling neck (intended for a Serie II) on my Serie III, and the intonation of the pair was unplayable.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Pianos need to be brought back up to pitch periodically. Assuming the pegs haven't slipped wouldn't that mean that the strings "stretch" over time? A "tap" with a felt hammer is probably much less aggressive that the repeated back and forth drawing of a rosined bow in the same general location.
Let's not lose track of the premise - one of "harmonicity" decaying with time, thus necessitating new strings for violins, yet not so much for pianos. It's not just about pitch - and that may just be slip at the tuning peg or accommodation in the organic parts - but whether the abundance of harmonic overtones are lost.

If it is a matter of bow vs hammer, then you substantiate my point that local wear is affecting the distribution of mass along the length of the string.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
I don't believe they pre-fit the neck for a specific model, but I wonder if they could do so on request? I know that Peter Ponzol in the past requested the original neck be sent to him as a model before making his aftermarket neck. Don't know if he still does that.
FWIW, I had a Paraschos that was made for a Borgani Jubilee (marked "OB" as I recall)- intonation was good. For the same horn, I also had a silver Borgani power neck, and a silver Gloger. All played well - so well that intonation was NOT a deciding factor in which I kept with the horn.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Regardless of whether it works similarly well on another horn, it worked well on the Borgani for which it was purchased - so much better than a Selmer-made neck (sterling silver thinwall, Serie II tenor) on a Selmer Serie III tenor. So yes, necks can be wrong, but the Paraschos/Borgani neck was right.

I'd be interested in seeing if, for example, the neck they provided for Dr. G, a Borgani owner, is the exact same neck they provided for someone else's Yamaha or Selmer, with the exception of perhaps the tenon diameter.

If so, then honestly they do not really make necks specifically spec'd for different brand/models of horn, they just make 'their' neck spec and, like the above, slap on the 'appropriate' sized tenon.

If so....disappointing, IMHO (although I am still very impressed with the ability to craft a precise and beautiful neck out of wood)....and honestly it elevates, in my mind, what Gloger offers ...custom necks for your specific model horn in the €500-600 range.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Point well taken. However there is some good evidence that there are slight differences even between necks of the same make and model.
That has certainly been my experience when testing Selmer Ref 54 and Ref 36 tenor necks - lots of variation. Although intonation was reasonably consistent, response ranged from dead/stuffy to great.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
This discussion is missing the mark, #17 and #20. I collect saxophones...
Or you have have a mark that is looking for a discussion. :shock:

Did you read the opening post? It's not about collectible value at all.

Here it is again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, how can a company make a neck and market it for several different makes/models of horns? From what I gather, they basically say "Adjust the tenon to fit your horn and off you go!"

I was under the impression that different sax makes/models have slightly different lengths/curves etc... things I would think could affect tuning and what not?

Is it as simple as "adjust the tenon and go"?
Have an original lacquer day! :bluewink:
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Here is an example of the one-size-fits-all category:https://musicmedic.com/products/saxophone-necks/dacarbo-saxophone-necks/dacarbo-saxophone-neck.html

Alto and Tenor


The neck of your saxophone has a huge influence on sound and playability. daCarbo uses the freedom offered by carbon fiber alignment and composite construction in building its instruments not to cut down on weight, but primarily to optimize the instrument's vibration. It becomes possible to suppress those vibrations in the tube that simply waste energy.

Exchangeable Tenon


daCarbo necks can easily be adapted to almost any saxophone: Various tenons are available, which can be screwed into the threaded ring on the necks end.
Instrument-makers, engineers, acoustic designers and musicians have worked together intensively to minimize the energy loss in the air column, where the sound is generated. Resulting in necks that are remarkably easy to play also in the highest and lowest registers at supreme sound quality. They allow excellent articulation and direct control. The sound of the saxophone opens up, allowing a better projection.


Prices for alto and tenor are $1220 and $1260, respectively.

On the other hand, there is Music Medic's own "Wilmington" series: https://musicmedic.com/products/saxophone-necks/wilmington-saxophone-necks.html

... We've combined the knowledge we have gained about neck alterations to improve tone and intonation on specific models of saxophones to produce superior necks that have that difficult-to-define but 'you-know-it-when-you-hear-it' sound. The extra clarity, the added confidence that the note is going to be right where you need it, and the amplification of that specific tone which is why many players still prefer vintage saxophones. Wilmington Saxophone necks offer real and practical improvement.

These super premium necks are made based on and played on the actual horns they were intended for by professional saxophonists. They are fine-tuned to be even better than the originals in most cases players will notice an improvement in tone, intonation and response. All necks are handmade right in the Sax ProShop in the USA, and can be customized to your specifications.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
John, I suspect that the ad text for the daCarbo necks is from the manufacturer, rather than Music Medic. It seems hypocritical to sell one-size-fits-all necks on the same site that professes the benefits of making necks for a particular model (ex. necks by Wilmington and Gloger), but that is a business and marketing decision. MM advertises necks by Saxgourmet as well.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
What its unreasonable about the KB necks?
My apologies for triggering your emotions with a poor choice of word. I meant "affordable".

I wish I could try several of Kim Bock's necks on my favorite horns. I already have Gloger's work on two of my horns.

...how about keeping an open mind?
Indeed.

BTW, I am not your enemy.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
35,416 Posts
Saxolese said:

>>>The pitch of the fundamental of a given note is one thing. The frequency of its harmonics is something else. A really thorough test of a neck (or saxophone for that matter) is to get a tuner that shows the pitch of the fundamental and the closest harmonics and check the "harmonicity" of the body and neck tube.

What tuners can do that?
Conn Strobotuner, and all its digital descendants.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top