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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, how can a company make a neck and market it for several different makes/models of horns? From what I gather, they basically say "Adjust the tenon to fit your horn and off you go!"

I was under the impression that different sax makes/models have slightly different lengths/curves etc... things I would think could affect tuning and what not?

Is it as simple as "adjust the tenon and go"?
 

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It is that simple to get the neck to play, yes. But it doesn’t mean it will play well or tune properly.

You also have to make sure the octave key will adjust to your model horn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, how can a company make a neck and market it for several different makes/models of horns? From what I gather, they basically say "Adjust the tenon to fit your horn and off you go!"

I was under the impression that different sax makes/models have slightly different lengths/curves etc... things I would think could affect tuning and what not?

Is it as simple as "adjust the tenon and go"?
Yeah, it's pretty suspect, really. I mean, it isn't even like you could say 'this modern asian neck will work on this modern asian model'.

I recently discovered this with a Vito YTS-23. I bought one neckless...didn't have a Yama neck here to determine its natural pitch...but had 3 different "eBay Special" chinese necks lying around, all with slightly different specifications.

I figured ONE would work well...but alas, none actually did. They would intone decently in the middle register area but would either go out high or low....

Interestingly, however, later Vito Taiwan necks work great on YAS and YTS 21/23's....although the body specs of the models aren't the same.

Obviously there are necks available (ostensibly) for particular models...modern replacements for Selmer, France horns for example...and I am not talking custom-made; am talking somewhat mass-produced....

So basically, it's BS. For the most part a crap-shoot. The notion that a new neck will work on a variety of horns just isn't accurate....unless the company literally lists the horns it will work on, in which case that list wouldn't be particularly long...but may in fact have the horn on it you seek.

My buddy (no not really.... but I love this vid and it has NEVER steered me wrong):


...also 'adjust the tenon and go'....:|...maybeeeee....a tenon has to be within around .25mm max of the recipient body's receiver diameter. If it's off by more than that, no compressing nor expanding will get that neck to fit right.

So if your receiver is 28.2mm....you have to find a replacement neck with a tenon of 27.95-28.45...or you'd have to have a tech replace the tenon on the replacement neck....
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, how can a company make a neck and market it for several different makes/models of horns? From what I gather, they basically say "Adjust the tenon to fit your horn and off you go!"

I was under the impression that different sax makes/models have slightly different lengths/curves etc... things I would think could affect tuning and what not?

Is it as simple as "adjust the tenon and go"?
I sure hope not. I've had enough problems choosing between all the mouthpiece/reed/ligature options. I don't need to throw necks into the mix and prompt another round of GAS.
 

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Yeah, it's pretty suspect, really. I mean, it isn't even like you could say 'this modern asian neck will work on this modern asian model'.

I recently discovered this with a Vito YTS-23. I bought one neckless...didn't have a Yama neck here to determine its natural pitch...but had 3 different "eBay Special" chinese necks lying around, all with slightly different specifications.

I figured ONE would work well...but alas, none actually did. They would intone decently in the middle register area but would either go out high or low....

Interestingly, however, later Vito Taiwan necks work great on YAS and YTS 21/23's....although the body specs of the models aren't the same.

Obviously there are necks available (ostensibly) for particular models...modern replacements for Selmer, France horns for example...and I am not talking custom-made; am talking somewhat mass-produced....

So basically, it's BS. For the most part a crap-shoot. The notion that a new neck will work on a variety of horns just isn't accurate....unless the company literally lists the horns it will work on, in which case that list wouldn't be particularly long...but may in fact have the horn on it you seek.

My buddy (no not really.... but I love this vid and it has NEVER steered me wrong):


...also 'adjust the tenon and go'....:|...maybeeeee....a tenon has to be within around .25mm max of the recipient body's receiver diameter. If it's off by more than that, no compressing nor expanding will get that neck to fit right.

So if your receiver is 28.2mm....you have to find a replacement neck with a tenon of 27.95-28.45...or you'd have to have a tech replace the tenon on the replacement neck....
So did you try the "sho-flute" test on those 3 candidates, and compare them to the newer Vito neck????? Enquiring minds want to know...
 

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I use, and am a fan of aftermarket necks. I play a Ponzol neck on both Tenor and alto. What it does for me not the subject here, but in response to the OP and subject .... why would it be any different than a mouthpiece difference? The mouthpiece is the completion of the conical shape and air volume of the horn, and, at least, theoretically for each horn design, bore, etc. there should be only one correct mouthpiece 'volume' that plays correctly in tune. But we accept compromises to enhance our playing desires and styles. You can easily, and almost subconsciously, learn to favor a particular tuning tendency in a mouthpiece simply because you favor the response and particular tonal vibe it sends you in. A neck is going to have FAR LESS significance than a mouthpiece and even less than reed choice in my opinion. But can it result in more or less focus / better or worse tuning / Easier Lows or more immediate altissimo / or for that matter just a cooler look and finish? I say yes, and have proven it myself. But practice and experience will also give you far more of the same components (except maybe the cool look).
 

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Karsten Gloger has collected measurements of many original necks, and , contrary to what other brands do, makes different necks that are all as close a reproduction to the original as possible.

http://www.gloger-handkraft.com

" Karsten GlogerGloger-Handkraft necks are made by a process making it possible to make
an original curve. (99 % accuracy) So you can have your favorite model made in silver, copper or maybe even in gold."


After having started this way, to reproduce original neck the market demanded something different , neck alterations, therefore:

" The necks are available in different measurements. So you can have the neck of your choice, fitted to your existing instrument and create your own unique sound. You have the flexibility to fit a neck for example, with an "American Curve" on a Selmer sax or another make still play on your familiar mechanism. The result is better intonation throughout the instrument."


When I had my neck made for the Super 20 the only thing that was different was the silver that was 999/1000 while King necks were at best sterling (or coin later on).
 

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It is the taper or "conicity" of the neck that determines how well the harmonics of the notes of the instrument line up, also called its "harmonicity". If the taper is too small, the octaves are too wide. If the taper is too great, the octaves are too narrow. The test of the necks in the video blowing like a bottle and buzzing into the end like a brass instrument compares only the length of the air column inside the necks. That may get you into the "ball park", but to compare an original neck with an aftermarket neck one needs to accurately measure the length, and the diameters of both the large and small ends. Finally the diameter of the neck needs to be measured every 20 mm or so since most if not all necks have the same taper throughout.

It seems clear to me that in order for Ponzol to make aftermarket necks that play as well as or better than the original he does a great deal of measurement and research before the final product is turned out. Players who spend a lot of money on "custom" necks that cannot be returned after a reasonable trial period need to be careful not to confuse "different" with "better". First impressions can sometimes be wrong when the two are confused IMO.

I am not sure that I agree that the "curve" of a neck makes any difference in the sound or response. One only needs to look at the many different configurations of brass instruments to know that the curves in the tubing make no significant difference.
 

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Players who spend a lot of money on "custom" necks that cannot be returned after a reasonable trial period need to be careful not to confuse "different" with "better". First impressions can sometimes be wrong when the two are confused IMO.

I am not sure that I agree that the "curve" of a neck makes any difference in the sound or response. One only needs to look at the many different configurations of brass instruments to know that the curves in the tubing make no significant difference.
100% agree with this. In particular the part of confusing "Different with Better" and First impressions. I can take my reed off and put it back on and you would think I changed mouthpieces.
 

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I bought an aftermarket Chinese neck for my BA tenor. I hate to say it but it plays better than the original which had some pull down repair. $80 shipped.
Maybe just because it’s fresh and clean helps. At least with only one key it can’t leak like a sieve as those cheap tenors can.
 

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So did you try the "sho-flute" test on those 3 candidates, and compare them to the newer Vito neck????? Enquiring minds want to know...
Actually, I had discovered that Vito Taiwan necks worked decently a while back...they had almost the same natural pitch as the Yama 23 neck when I was able to compare side by side.

For this particular horn, in this instance, with no true Yama or even Vito Taiwan neck around with which to compare, rather than continuing to take shots in the dark, I bit the bullet and purchased a Yamaha replacement neck....

So I would speculate that none of these eFlay cheapie necks I had actually have the same natural pitch as a 21/23 neck.
 

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I use, and am a fan of aftermarket necks. I play a Ponzol neck on both Tenor and alto. What it does for me not the subject here, but in response to the OP and subject .... why would it be any different than a mouthpiece difference?
Because an aftermarket neck which is NOT a high-end one, of a design clearly engineered and having undergone some R&D....is really not likely gonna work out all that well on a particular horn if you do not match it to the original neck's natural pitch.

As Milandro and Saxoclese note: Gloger, Ponzol, and the like...those guys have seriously done research, major reverse-engineering, and a lotta testing.... and they know which necks to offer customers for which horns.

Most new necks readily available out there, however, do not fit that description.

A neck is going to have FAR LESS significance than a mouthpiece and even less than reed choice in my opinion.
I respectfully disagree. A poorly-matched neck to a horn body is far more dramatic than a poorly matched mouthpiece to a horn model, in most instances, IMHO.

So unless one does a bit of research beforehand on how to find a decent match (and not just take the marketers word for it)....one can quite easily end up with a neck which is a fail, far more frequently than you would a new mouthpiece which is a fail....
 

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It is the taper or "conicity" of the neck that determines how well the harmonics of the notes of the instrument line up, also called its "harmonicity". If the taper is too small, the octaves are too wide. If the taper is too great, the octaves are too narrow. The test of the necks in the video blowing like a bottle and buzzing into the end like a brass instrument compares only the length of the air column inside the necks. That may get you into the "ball park"....
Yes, absolutely. In both the vid and in my experiences and suggestion....the goal was NOT to find a neck which is a good match to the original across-the-board in all aspects of what a neck is supposed to do.

The goal was to just come up with a neck which would intonationally work well with the particular horn. As far as tonality, resistance, blowing response, etc....that vid test doesn't address those things nor is it meant to. Most of the time when I get a positive match of replacement neck to body, I am simply shooting for intonation up and down the registers which is in the pocket.

The methodology in that vid achieves this.

Rarely do the other aspects of the 'successful' neck match how the original would have performed.

I have matched up a good 40 or so neckless bodies with necks using this method over the years...as I said, it has never failed to produce a decent match. Absolute worst-case scenario I have come across maybe 3 or 4 times is: somewhere in there up and down the registers there may be one or two notes which were 20 cents or so off. And I don't mean the same note being off in different registers...I mean just a couple of notes from Bb1 thru altissimo being off to the degree where one had to consciously lip it back into range...

Even in those instances, it was like 20-25 cents off ...not like 30-40.
So, IMHO, that's still a pretty successful methodology.
 

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The pitch of the fundamental of a given note is one thing. The frequency of its harmonics is something else. A really thorough test of a neck (or saxophone for that matter) is to get a tuner that shows the pitch of the fundamental and the closest harmonics and check the "harmonicity" of the body and neck tube.
 

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I crack up with the people that are dead set about having the original neck to their mark 6(f.e). Are we really to believe that every neck is specifically made for each horn??? Obviously they look for a good match, but a model is s model.... or is there really more to it??
 

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I crack up with the people that are dead set about having the original neck to their mark 6(f.e). Are we really to believe that every neck is specifically made for each horn??? Obviously they look for a good match, but a model is s model.... or is there really more to it??
Point well taken. However there is some good evidence that there are slight differences even between necks of the same make and model.

 

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The pitch of the fundamental of a given note is one thing. The frequency of its harmonics is something else. A really thorough test of a neck (or saxophone for that matter) is to get a tuner that shows the pitch of the fundamental and the closest harmonics and check the "harmonicity" of the body and neck tube.
Interesting to know. Thx. I may try that next time.
 

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I crack up with the people that are dead set about having the original neck to their mark 6(f.e). Are we really to believe that every neck is specifically made for each horn??? Obviously they look for a good match, but a model is s model.... or is there really more to it??
I generally agree with this. Occasionally when I sell horns which had the serials stamped on the neck (Martins for example), but I matched up a still-by-the-same-maker-and-of same-era-and-same-model neck to the body.....just obviously not matching in serial #...I will get someone trying to talk me down in price because 'the neck isn't the original neck'.

That moves into absurdity. It's a Martin Indiana (or Comm II or whatever) on the same model body....it's the same fookin' neck specification. I ask them to direct me to anything factual which suggests that the same-mfr/same-model neck I have matched to the horn somehow will compromise the horn's integrity.

These things get nuts...and really, IMHO...all it is is people trying to lowball/devalue what I am selling so they can pat themselves on the back as 'wily consumers'.

I remember several years ago a thread by someone who purchased a vintage classic model horn from me...one which I had gone to some effort to find a matching, good condition, by-same-mfr. neck for. The horn model only had a run of around 8 years. Serial numbers were off by less than 1000. Two months after I sold it, he starts a thread lamenting the fact that his horn doesn't have its original neck.

Unless there is clear proof that the neck spec changed on a model at a certain time (Buescher for example)....this is purely just stupidity.
 
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