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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone tried this in the past, or a similar swap? I have an old cadaver NWII alto I can pull these from. It seems cheaper and easier than having one made or trying to find a junker 12M just for the receiver.

I'm not really asking if I should do it or not, I've made that decision, just if there are any considerations I might not have thought of.

The current tenon receiver on the 12M is not original. Its a bit janky looking and seems like more of a bandaid repair. I don't like the way it fits the tenon. But, because it is not original I can't compare the alto receiver to anything useful. I don't think the neck tenon is original either but, it is a good solder job if not. I'll replace that too with the alto tenon.

Any way, I've measured everything out with calipers and it seems like it should be a good fit.

Any thoughts?
 

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Seems to me that you need to get someone to measure a good 12M tenon and receiver before you jump to the conclusion that you can replace them with alto parts. I doubt very much that the dimensions are close enough to make the swap successful. I think you'd do better either to buy real 12M parts (see above) or have a machine shop turn the parts of brass.
 

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yes, why do this unless you wanted to put an alto tuner neck on it? and who knows whether it would play in tune? (hint: it wouldn't.)

I'm with General Motors on this one..."get that great 12M feeling with genuine 12M parts"
 

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Discussion Starter #5
yes, why do this unless you wanted to put an alto tuner neck on it? and who knows whether it would play in tune? (hint: it wouldn't.)

I'm with General Motors on this one..."get that great 12M feeling with genuine 12M parts"
I'm not putting the whole alto neck on it, just the tenon and receiver. I'm not really convinced that the collar holding the neck to the body will change much about the sound, nor feel, unless the length of the tube is far different. If the alto tenon is the same length as the bari tenon, and the diameters are the same....... as long as the tenon is flush with the body once everything is in place, the intonation should be fine.

As it is now, it doesn't have the original receiver, nor I suspect, the original tenon anyway.

Seems to me that you need to get someone to measure a good 12M tenon and receiver before you jump to the conclusion that you can replace them with alto parts. I doubt very much that the dimensions are close enough to make the swap successful. I think you'd do better either to buy real 12M parts (see above) or have a machine shop turn the parts of brass.
Good point,

Does anyone have the inner diameter measurements of a 12M receiver. This may have been a better question to ask in the first place.

But, here is my logic on this. I own two Conn C Melodies, a NWI and a NWII, I have three NWII altos (two of which are just for spear parts). All five of these horns have identical tenon receivers. They are all a couple hundred microns under 27mm, all of the inner diameters measure 24.5mm. I work in manufacturing and I understand the drive for efficiency. I know this may or may not translate to the 12M but, the receiver that is on it now is around 27mm in length.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK..... I have first proof of concept.

I pulled the tenon off the alto neck and walla.... it fits perfectly onto the bari neck.
 

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I ran into the same problem with my 12M about 5 years. I had Aaron Barnard fabricate and install a new tenon/receiver pair. I don't remember how much it cost, but it wasn't terribly expensive and he installed it while I played the horns on his wall (ahh the pre Covid days). Both the new tenon and receiver are thicker than the original (which were too thin) so hopefully this will not need to be done for another 100 years.

At the time that he did mine, he had another sitting on his bench that he said he had fabricated for another tech, but he didn't say who that was.
 

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Yeah, the pitfalls of vintage Conn saxophones; and something to be mindful of when purchasing them. The receivers tend to go out of round. It was a 10M that needed a fabricated receiver for me.
 

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The receivers are made of thin tubing unlike today's standard, the Selmer receiver with its heavy thick rim around the top that does not easily distort with repeated clamping. The Conn tenor sax tenon is paper thin and extremely prone to getting out of round or tapered, with little you can do about it. The Conn baritone and alto tenons are normal wall thickness and quite stout.

As I've written many times, Conn's mechanical design, while adequate to the purpose, is often a bit "string and sealing wax". The little tiny set screws are another example - King did it right with the lock nuts.

Interestingly, my 12M's receiver has a stress crack right at the bottom of the slot, just where you'd expect it to be; but that crack has not grown in the 37 years I've had the horn (and it's my main instrument so it's been clamped and unclamped thousands of times). Someday when I'm feeling extra ambitious I suppose I'll solder it. Again, it wouldn't have been any big deal to put a little hole right at the bottom of the slot (making it a sort of keyhole shape), but they didn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OK, success!

103065


Here is the alto tenon on the Bari neck. After cleaning off all the old solder, its a perfect fit. I did get a little too much heat into it trying to pull off the old tenon, my octave posts fell off...... Oops. Soldering them back on, I managed to take out the slop that was there before.

103066


Here is the alto receiver on the Bari. The only problem is now the tightening screw is inserted the opposite direction. In order to tighten it with my right hand, the receiver has to be turned 90 degrees so the screw is parallel with the neck. I hadn't yet soldered everything into place before I took these pictures.

103067


Here is the old receiver after I pulled it off. It was actually cobbled together with four different pieces.

The horn itself is ugly. It had been rode hard and put away wet. I'll give it a complete overall when I get more time this fall. But for the time being, it plays. And now the neck fits nicely.
 
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