[ajarndontree]

I have a Phil Barone SNY that I bought used from PM Woodwind and I just love the baffle and chamber, but it’s a 7 star (tip opening 105) and I prefer a tip opening of 110. I know it’s already close to my preferred tip opening but I am considering whether it is worth paying someone to reface it to my preferred tip opening. What is a ballpark price for refacing a brass mouthpiece? Can anyone recommend someone within 100 miles of Chicago, or do I need to ship it somewhere? My initial instinct is to send it back to Phil Barone himself, since he made the piece.

 

[ajarndontree]

Also curious, when gold and silver plated mouthpieces are refaced, is the part that was refaced left exposing the bare brass? I don’t have a brass allergy so I suppose that would be acceptable. Or do some refacers have the ability to add a little silver or gold plating to match the original plating? Seems like that would be a difficult task.

 

[Grumps]

If you like the piece, don't take the chance on wrecking it. There's absolutely no way you'll know ahead of time if you're going to like it more open. When faced with similar concerns in the past, I simply found something more open, then traded or sold what I thought wasn't open enough. Plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak.

 

[skeller047]

105 -> 110 ??? Don't bother. You get more difference in a single box of reeds.

I thought (though I may be wrong in this case) that the SNY was already unplated. I know my Barone Hollywood from 2011 is. Regardless, refacing will in fact expose bare brass. So will playing a mouthpiece for many years... It's not a thing at all, though some people (Matt Marantz in NY, for example) will do plating.

But Grumps is right. If the piece is good as is, do not mess with it. If it is really bugging you get some harder reeds, but I doubt you would notice the difference if (all things being equal) you magically changed the 7* to an 8.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I have a Phil Barone SNY that I bought used from PM Woodwind and I just love the baffle and chamber, but it's a 7 star (tip opening 105) and I prefer a tip opening of 110.

"Preferred tip opening" means nothing without the other parameters, the main one in this regard being the facing curve length and type. Also as skeller047 said, .005 is nothing. Just go from 7* to 9, or else I'd say forget it and use harder reeds or more long notes.

 

[swperry1]

Yeah, I bet if you try a few different brands/ cuts and strengths of reeds you’ll find a happy solution. As mentioned before, why risk messing up a good piece and yes, refacing ruins the pretty plating job. Some folks who work mouthpieces also do plating for a fee, but most do not.

 

[1saxman]

They are all correct. The best thing to do, assuming you like the mouthpiece but find it a little 'soft' is to use slightly stiffer reeds. Let's say you are playing a Rico 2 1/2 - you could go to a 'Royal' 2 1/2 or a Rico 3. You don't have to make a big jump. A harder reed will also tend to put a little more complexity into your sound. It is MUCH easier to live with a mouthpiece that's a little soft than one that's a little hard - this requires using a softer reed and it may not be ideal. This set-up also uses up reeds quickly.

 

[Mezzzz]

FYI......open brass is dangerous to your health! Oral cancer is a great possibility after long usage. Send it out to a well known mouthpiece doctor that can open it up and either replate it or spray it with approved material to seal the open brass. I recently had a mouthpiece done to correct the open brass areas of my mouthpiece. Adolf Sax had major health problems after years of testing open brass instrument mouthpieces. Better to be safe than sorry!

Maybe send it to Marrantz to get it properly fixed! http://www.marantzcustommouthpieces.com/

 

[Dr G]

FYI......open brass is dangerous to your health! Oral cancer is a great possibility after long usage. Send it out to a well known mouthpiece doctor that can open it up and either replate it or spray it with approved material to seal the open brass. I recently had a mouthpiece done to correct the open brass areas of my mouthpiece. Adolf Sax had major health problems after years of testing open brass instrument mouthpieces. Better to be safe than sorry!

Maybe send it to Marrantz to get it properly fixed! http://www.marantzcustommouthpieces.com/

Please offer some proof of your conjectures. The evidence does not align with your claims that bare brass is dangerous to one's health.

 

[Zephyrwolf]

Mojo. Yes its worth it.

 

[leycroft]

I remember Geoff Lawton said this somewhere his B chamber went 6 star 7 star etc the facing in between wasnt worth making as standard production .

 

[B Flat]

I remember Geoff Lawton said this somewhere his B chamber went 6 star 7 star etc the facing in between wasnt worth making as standard production .

Yes but there are also some who will make a piece in one tip opening only, does that mean that the others don't matter or that they just don't want to bother with it.

 

[MojoBari]

Phil’s later pieces seem to be all bare brass. I finished the last 30 or so for him in 2018. He may still have a few of them for sale. $145 from me to open it up if it is not one I have worked on before.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

GW Mouthpieces has been my go to for great ready to go pieces and re-facing. Greg Wier does a fantastic job re-facing pieces from
duds to a fully realized piece. He's a professional saxophonist and knows how to lift those subtle qualities from a piece to allow a high level of professional quality,
but with prices that a working musician can actually afford.

 

[ajarndontree]

Thanks to all for the great advice. I have never heard anyone talk about gaining richness to the sound by using a stiffer reed before but it makes sense. I suppose moving to a larger tip opening has benefits but there's always a trade off. I find altissimo speaks easier with a larger tip opening and I like a little more buzz, but then again I am producing a fantastic tone with this 7 star so perhaps I should just keep it as is. The only way I would ever know for sure is to try it side by side in comparison with an 8. Although I have decided not to reface the Barone, I am however likely to get the Morgan Fry I just purchased on Ebay refaced. The seller didn't know the model but based on the silver plating I am hoping it is a Super Vintage. The seller said it was a 7, so either he didn't see the star next to the 7 or Morgan Fry used to make 7's? On his website he doesn't currently sell a 7, just a 7 star and 8 star. Anyway, if this is truly a 7, I can't imagine .100 would be a large enough tip opening and facing for my needs. I just bought it and it will arrive in a week. If I don't love the reed response and can't get enough buzz, then I will send it off to one of you jolly good blokes I just met on SOTW for a little touch up. I am not concerned about having a little bit of bare brass exposed, especially since it will be on a part of the mouthpiece that is covered by the reed and not directly visible. I don't have any health concerns about the brass. I am a gen xer and we grew up drinking water out of garden hoses, playing in the mud etc. and that's why our immune systems are so strong. LOL

 

[Guto]

FYI......open brass is dangerous to your health! Oral cancer is a great possibility after long usage. Send it out to a well known mouthpiece doctor that can open it up and either replate it or spray it with approved material to seal the open brass. I recently had a mouthpiece done to correct the open brass areas of my mouthpiece. Adolf Sax had major health problems after years of testing open brass instrument mouthpieces. Better to be safe than sorry!

Maybe send it to Marrantz to get it properly fixed! http://www.marantzcustommouthpieces.com/

I don't know where you heard brass is dangerous to one's health. I've never seen any evidence of that. But if you do believe in it (different than stating it as a fact) and want to cover it, I never heard of an approved material that you spray on a mouthpiece to seal it off either. What material is that? Approved by who? And how does it hold up with playing? Can you please elaborate?

 

[SaxBass55]

Interesting articles in this search:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,10&q=brass+toxicity+for+humans&btnG=
Perhaps more to point is whether playing a raw brass saxophone mouthpiece would lead to harmful dosage:
https://research.libraries.wsu.edu:...5336/Taylor thesis.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
p.29: "Brass/copper allergy could fall under the category of contact dermatitis as well. According to Gambichler and associates, skin conditions, such as contact dermatitis is a prevalent issue in musicians of all ages and calibers (2004). Symptoms can include acne breakouts, irritation and redness of the area (Howard, 1989). According to the survey, 2/16 of the respondents that sought medical help said they had been diagnosed with contact dermatitis. One respondent did not elaborate on this dermatitis case. The other respondent also was diagnosed with brass poisoning and TMJ at some point along with contact dermatitis. To help treat this irritation, skin cream was prescribed. Trying a titanium plated mouthpiece may also be a solution (Giddings, 2014)."
Recognizing that one diagnosis does not make a recognized syndrome, and contact dermatitis is not necessarily secondary to the material content (see the dermatology article), brass toxicity seems to be discussed in the literature absent specific review of the small exposure that might result from refacing.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Yes but there are also some who will make a piece in one tip opening only, does that mean that the others don't matter or that they just don't want to bother with it.

It could all be down to whether you are making something that you know works best in one specific facing. I do get people asking for custom facings (usually tip size because so many people are not aware there is a lot more to it than that). So they say something like "I'm a 7* man myself" as if that means anything apart from within one brand/model. But if I made (or rather, designed) a mouthpiece that I can put my name47 behind then in some cases I can only endorse the one facing that I know is the best combination of factors for me.

 

[B Flat]

It could all be down to whether you are making something that you know works best in one specific facing. I do get people asking for custom facings (usually tip size because so many people are not aware there is a lot more to it than that). So they say something like "I'm a 7* man myself" as if that means anything apart from within one brand/model. But if I made (or rather, designed) a mouthpiece that I can put my name47 behind then in some cases I can only endorse the one facing that I know is the best combination of factors for me.

Yes, but to say that a piece works best in a certain tip opening one should really have played a large number of tip openings for that certain piece and have given them all the same amount of play time.
Obviously that's not going to happen and even if it did, someone who is comfortable around a certain tip opening will naturally prefer that tip to more open or closed ones.
So to claim a piece is best in just one size is really just stating that you personally prefer it in that size.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Yes, but to say that a piece works best in a certain tip opening one should really have played a large number of tip openings for that certain piece and have given them all the same amount of play time.
Obviously that's not going to happen and even if it did, someone who is comfortable around a certain tip opening will naturally prefer that tip to more open or closed ones.

Not necessarily. If the facing curve is different (and possibly chamber/baffle), they may prefer a different tip. This is why I said above it often makes no sense for the hyperthetical customer saying "I'm a 7* man myself"

So to claim a piece is best in just one size is really just stating that you personally prefer it in that size.

Well, I did end my post with I can only endorse the one facing that I know is the best combination of factors for me.

However I believe Dave Guardala said exactly the same thing, if we are to believe the anecdotal evidence of Jeffrey Powell. I think it was .107 for a studio.

Theoretically for there to be consistency across high baffle mouthpieces with a range if tip openings, the actual baffle dimensions should change in relation to every single tip size. But normally that isn't what happens. I have done that at times, but it's a pain.