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Hey.

Since we've established the reference to be a better horn that they yts-82z (from most people) I wanted to see what you think about Borganis. I am not very farmiliar with them so comparing any of their models to the reference would be ideal for me.
 

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That's a tuff one since most players haven't had the opportunity to get their hands on a Borgani. I believe only Roberto's NY has them. Joe Lovano sound great on one. When you get to this calibur of horn, there are so many variations from horn to horn within the same series, horn set-up/regulation, mouthpiece, reed & lig combo, etc. and the human element.

I was listening to Jeff Coffin's CD "Bloom" last night and he sounds awesome on the unlacquered 82Z he used for his project. Joe Lovano sound great on Borgani. If you can truly play, you'll make any of these horns sing.

I have both a 36 and a Silver Z tenor and each is an awesome horn, just a bit different. Yet, if 10 of us rotated the horns, we would all sound different ..... again the human element.
 

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I, as a relative beginner, found the 3 new Borgani altos I tried last Sept, to be nearly impossible to play in the low register :( They just felt and sounded, to me, really unpleasant.

As they were demo horns and he's a Borgani 'specialist', I can't think they were all badly set-up.

OTOH, the Ref 54 blew very easily and had a silky smooth action.

The shop-owner said I'd do best with the Yani 901... by far the least expensive!

But I still have my Hanson!
 

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Borgani = boutique horn with questionable long-term value, appeal and limited following. If you ever wanted/needed to get rid of a Borgani you'd have a harder time with it in the market than you would the Yamaha.

Really, though at the highest levels of quality and craftsmanship that you're speaking of, you might as well be comparing Mercedes to BMW, Ferrari to Lamborghini, strawberry ice cream to chocolate ice cream. You're really splitting hairs.

Sorry, I just cannot understand (any) brand loyalty on the merits of quality, playability, etc -- they're all great among the Big 5. The only thing that starts to separate one apart from the other is 'value'. Since price is no object for you then 'value' may mean something completely different to you (secondary market).

I wouldn't buy a boutique horn (Borgani, Inderbinen, R&C) unless I've had a lot of time to spend with one to compare against what I have and use regularly. There really is no way to tell if you really like a horn until you've lived with it for a few months.

If I were in your situation I'd get a Selmer Ref or a suited up Yanagisawa then go home and practice for 10,000 hours.
 

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hgiles.
You are right in what you say...I really love the term "boutique horns". Yes you do take a chance when you buy one; but no more than buying a bespoke Saville Row suit or a Maserati.
I took a chance when buying an R&C three years ago, based on the whim of patronising a small Company who had been hand building saxophones for longer than Selmer. Sure, they have not always been top of the range but the reports on the latest R1 were excellent. I liked the idea of a dedicated Company which was prepared to hand build a horn exactly to my specification where nothing was too much trouble...with literally any finish that I wanted.
You are correct, it is risky, but I was rewarded with the best tenor that I have ever played; and I have played most. Another horn may not be quite the same as all hand built instruments have their own quirks and nuances.
Sometimes one has to take a chance otherwise these makers will die...killed by the mass produced market.
Oh yes, every Christmas I receive a card from one of the directors who is also their engraver; does Mr Yamagasawaga have the time to do that?
 

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^^^Beeflat, I hear ya. I am sure the R&C is a fantastic horn. I myself like the feeling of owning something you don't see everyday, a rarer horn, exclusivity.

FWIW, I own and play B&S horns. Very inexpensive, limited production (especially now), and a long-standing tradition of European craftsmanship and quality.

I believe, it's as good as any horn out there at any price, but I can't trade it for a Selmer Ref 54 to be sure!
 

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hgiles.
I am sure that your B&S is a good horn, and in the value for money rankings it is highly rated. As you regard it as good as any horn out there, there is no need to covert the Ref. 54. or any other; so trading it would be purely academic. You should be a happy man, I envy your attitude.
It is difficult to justify the cost of a Maserati when, in general terms, the Volvo does much the same job. To some however, build quality and attention to detail are almost beyond price, as I feel sure you understand.
 

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Borg. VS 54

Allo Sax Col...
I did played one Borganie for a week,,,it had a beautifull sound,but found the key work a litle strange,then also it is a very sturdy and heavy beast!
The Borganie is like a heavy Tonka on your neck,but sounds beautifull! Though the intonation was sharp in the high register,and after a while I just did'nt want to spend that much monoey on a horn that I really was'nt sure of!
The 54 on the other hand would have been definitely my first choice over the Borganie,,but then again that is only a personal view and opinion!
I also found the action of the borganie was heavy and sort of not like Selmer or Yamaha has!The 54 was a stunning horn,and also very responsive in all register,beautifull tone,,and powerfull!Personaly If I would have to choose between the two I would go for the 54.
Anyways hope that this can help in anyway!
Wish you the best,
Saxobari
 

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I've tried and heard others also try two Borganis, a Vintage model and a Joe Lovano model. I'm not a good tenor player at all, but both others are. I also tried one Reference 54. It was harder for me to play the low notes on the Borganis, but I tried them with mouhtpieces I'm really not used to which were not the most comfortable. The Reference was easier but also the mouthpiece I tried with it.

As far as the sound, I thought the Borganis sounded very good, just as good as any other great saxophone, or better. I could see why some people would prefer them over any other sax. One of the other players has a really good Mark VI and he sounds the same on both saxes, though he says it is easier for him to play on the Borgani. The other player sounds slightly better on the Borgani than his Mark VI, but his VI is not really a great sax (the same player tried a few References and didn't like them).

The quality of the saxes seemed about the same as other good saxes like Yamaha, etc. The keywork was a bit more comfortable to me than modern Selmers and other modern saxes, but again I'm not great on tenor and I'm not used to any specific tenor.

As far as apearance the silver (Joe Lovano) model looked good, but I just didn't like the Vintage look. From afar it does look old, but from close it just looks cheap to me... I prefer the more classic look of the Selmer's lacquer, though it wouldn't make any difference if this Borgani Vintage was better in every other way.
 

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I have owned 2 borgani altos, a vintage jubilee model a couple of years back, and a 24k jubillee model that I am currently playing as my main horn.. I find it to be the best sounding modern horn that I have ever played.. it doesn't have yani's perfect intonation and I wouldn' recomend it for classical playing but for what I want it it is really a perfect horn.. It really blows like a vintage conn, very loud and deep but it has way easier keywork and general stability on the horn.. it is a gutsy horn and I think that it is the best modern horn for the one who loves vintage american horns. It outlplays every single modern selmer I have ever played.. that is of course because it fitted my playing and took me a step closer to the alto sound and response that I am dreaming of..
I also dind't like the looks of the vintage model as well but this 24k model really looks amazing and classy.. i am thinking of getting a tenor and a silver alto as well :)
 
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