[skeller047]

I have the ATG system, and while I agree that what you are paying for is mostly the book and DVD, I actually think it’s worth it. Very good information in there. Other reed adjustment documents and books are also expensive, often out of print, and in my survey of reed methods, usually flawed in some way.

My process - new reed, soak for 1-2 minutes, flatten the back with the “cheap geek” (lathe tool bit), test for balance (side-to-side play test), adjust balance with sandpaper or reed rush, put reed in case, then play the sucker.

I will test for balance again the next couple times I play the reed, and maybe do a slight adjustment, use the geek if needed, otherwise I just play it until it dies.

I no longer use the ATG sanding block, although if a reed is really way too hard I might use it to bring it down overall. The real key to my process is to buy reeds that are very close to my preferred strength out of the box. Also, I try to keep ahead with my reed supply, I have several boxes of reeds, and I use the oldest ones first. I don’t break reeds in, I discovered that had no effect on reed longevity or reed performance. I generally get about 90% of reeds to play well.

The other key to my process is play a different reed every day. Maybe two reeds if it’s a busy day. Rotate through 6-8 reeds. My sound is dependent on me, not on a reed. The minor differences reed to reed I just play through. Balancing them minimizes the differences. If a reed isn’t working, I go on to the next. If a reed doesn’t work 3 times, out it goes. Once I’m down to 4 reeds, I get 4 more new ones ready.

 

[skeller047]

So I looked this thing up: Am I correct that it consists of a small surface plate to use in sanding, some sandpaper, and instructions both printed and video?

There is also a sanding block, which is meant to be used in a particular, and non-intuitive way. For someone, like yourself, that already has a well defined process and a lot of practice using it, there is probably little benefit to this - or indeed, any other reed preparation system. For someone who has no experience, or is frustrated with their mostly failed attempts at reed adjustment, it’s very valuable.

Ridenour has an interesting approach to reed work, and the method is very easy to learn. The printed material and video is quite good, and explains the reasoning behind the process very well. For someone with little understanding of how reeds and saxophones actually work, the system provides a lot of value.

That said, and having read and enjoyed many of your posts, @turf3, if you bought it you’d probably feel ripped off.

 

[skeller047]

Long post warning. TL;DR - the simplest thing that works is best.

I was taught to break reeds in. As I became a multi reed player (3 saxophones, clarinet and bass clarinet, plus oboe for a short time), I ended up with 2 large pieces of plate glass, each with a couple dozen reeds in various stages of the break in process. As I became busier, I would occasionally find myself in the situation of”gig tonight - no reeds ready”. Panic ensues.

Of course, I did what needed to be done - get some new reeds out of the box and make them play. I lived in fear of these young, fragile reeds suddenly dying on the gig, Equally of course, that never happened. After a couple years, I said to myself “Self, I wonder if I really need to break reeds in?” After some informal testing, I decided the answer was “no”. I haven’t looked back.

Cut to 2003 or so. I joined SOTW, found a lot of folks talking aboutreeds, so decided to do some research. Purchased several books, Kalman Opperman, Larry Guy, some guy whose name I forget who published a master’s thesis, and the aptly named Ray Reed. And the ATG system. With the exception of Ridenour’s ATG, all these sources (and inummerable YouTube videos) all recommended breaking in. One in particular, Ray Reed, is certifianly crazy, and probably a candidate for OCD patient of the century. Larry Guy isn’t far behind. Both men are excellent and successful musicians, but about reeds, they have nothing useful
for me.

But my experience said breaking in is bunk. Are all these guys wrong? Answer - for me, they are. Ridenour being the exception. Most of the research ended up being useless, with ATG being the single exception. But the sanding block approach is a little too “macro” for me, I was trained to use reed rush. I note that Tom Ridenour himself also uses small pieces of sandpaper (stuck to a putty handle) for fine adjustment purposes.

So today, I use a small piece of sandpaper or a piece of reed rush (Dutch rush) to balance to reed side to side. I pass a geek like tool over the back. No more than 5 minutes a reed. Most play really well. My percentage of good reeds is high, 95% for Rigotti and probably 85-90% for Rico Orange Box. I’m happy

 

[skeller047]

I own a reed clipper. I believe I own the one I bought at the direction of my clarinet teacher, back in 1963 or so. I have them for each saxophone and clarinet. I clip about 1 reed a year, total, across all 3 saxophones and clarinet.

I do play reeds until they die - that is, get too soft and/or dead sounding. That's why I rotate reeds, each day I adapt to a different reed, so I concentrate on making my sound and don't depend on the characteristics of a particular reed.

I once played a reed every day (well, 6 days a week, 2 shows a night plus rehearsals) for 6 weeks. Good reed. When it finally gave up the ghost, the next day was a little disorienting - wow, are reeds really this hard? That's why I rotate... that and the fact that reeds seem to last longer if you give them a little rest after every play session.

 

[skeller047]

No, I’m asking if people can remain on topic, which is tips for using the ATG system, not if you think it’s baloney or not. I like it a lot so far and would appreciate relevant advice from those who are more experienced with it.

Here are the two main things I got from the ATG system.

1) A light sanding of the entire vamp of the reed before doing anything else. (Ridenour sort of tosses this off somewhere in the written monograph.) This is to remove broken and bent fibers left by the cutting machines, especially at the tip.

2) Support for not breaking reeds in.

I followed the ATG system for a couple of years, using the block and the five basic sanding strokes, but found I could do just as well by using a small piece of sandpaper or reed rush. Since I had used this approach for 40 or so years before I got the ATG system, it was easy to go back. I avoid the spine of the reed, and restrict sanding to two sort of triangle shaped areas, on on each side of the reed. The triangle bases overlap at the tip, and the apexes are on each side, along the rail.

I already knew about side to side balancing, and had used the basic mouthpiece rotation test for years. I was glad to see how important it was to Ridenour.

I guess the biggest thing I got from Ridenour was confirmation of some vague intuitions I had about reeds, and some very clear writing and thought about how reeds actually work. Of all the things I have read or watched about reed adjustment, from my teachers, conversations with colleagues over the years, books and papers by noted players and a gazillion videos, Ridenour stands alone as someone that actually makes sense to me.

I recommend it without reservation to anyone struggling with reed adjustment. Whether it’s useful (and worth the price) to someone who is not struggling is not clear.