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Hi all,

Is this red rot on this sax?
I'm not fussed how it looks, just whether or not this may be detrimental to the horn overtime.

I've read across the forums that red rot only badly affects brass instruments and not woodwind as much, but this might not be true. Some info on this would be great.

Cheers
 

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Looks like a surface type of red rot and not harmful in the sense of eating through the brass.
I recently bought a Dolnet baritone that was covered in it.
Here are some before and after shots.
I used CLR and elbow grease to remove red rot and polished with brasso before citing with an automotive wax.
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B Flat - quite an impressive transformation. My Dolnet tenor arrived in Sydney this afternoon - 5 weeks from Frankfurt.
 
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Hi all,

Is this red rot on this sax?
I'm not fussed how it looks, just whether or not this may be detrimental to the horn overtime.

I've read across the forums that red rot only badly affects brass instruments and not woodwind as much, but this might not be true. Some info on this would be great.

Cheers
Continuing old threads (where you’ve read about red rot) gives more results than starting a new one, nothing wrong with that and keeps information in one place.

Saxophones are way thicker than any brass instruments zo, loss of zinc doesn’t imply any holes in the structure. As shown above (originally in a similar thread) the Dolnet has superficial loss of zinc in the alloy removing the layers exposed the brass underneath.

This process really shows how foolish is being against buffing, the material removed by buffing is not more than it is removed while cleaning g a horn like this, yet buffing is, now frowned upon (because the market is driven by the collector’s idea that horns have to be as “ original” lacquer as possible seen as the worst that it can happen and seriously devalues a horn) while it was a normal act of maintenance until the ’80 when the “ shabby chic or rat look” became fashionable
 

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B Flat - quite an impressive transformation. My Dolnet tenor arrived in Sydney this afternoon - 5 weeks from Frankfurt.
5 weeks can feel like an eternity.
I got this one from Canberra, so only a few days wait.
It’s been a bit of work, but I’ve enjoyed it.
 

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Continuing old threads (where you’ve read about red rot) gives more results than starting a new one, nothing wrong with that and keeps information in one place.

Saxophones are way thicker than any brass instruments zo, loss of zink doesn’t imply any holes in the structure. As shown above (originally in a similar thread) the Dolnet has superficial loss of zinc in the alloy removing the layers exposed the brass underneath.

This process really shows how foolish is being against buffing, the material removed by buffing is not more than it is removed while cleaning g a horn like this, yet buffing is, now (because the market is driven by the collector’s idea that horns have to be as “ original” lacquer as possible seen as the worst that it can happen and seriously devalues a horn.
The buffing in this case was all by hand and only with a rag and some brasso.
Followed up with a light waxing with an automotive polish.
The dark area remaining are where the lacquer hadn’t been affected as much.
I didn’t see any point in removing that lacquer as it adds character.
Also it would have required another step that I didn’t feel necessary.
In all honesty, I actually liked the way it looked with the red rot patina.
I mainly removed it because I too was a little concerned that it may have been more than skin deep.
This was due to some of the concerns I’ve read on here more than anything else.
A lot of that concern is spread by people who really have never dealt with it before and are just repeating things they have read.
I actually had a Dolnet Belair tenor a few years ago that was fully covered in this red rot.
I loved how it looked and loved the price also because nobody else would touch it.
I foolishly sold it on a whim when someone came over to try out another tenor I was selling.
He commented on how bad it looked, so I told him to play it and see how he felt.
He walked out with the Dolnet and left me with the Yanagisawa I was actually trying to sell.
 

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perhaps the red patina could be preserved and stabilized rather than removed incorporating this into the aged “ rat loo’ (sorry it is not derogatory, they do this in automotive reconstructions now)


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perhaps the red patina could be preserved and stabilized rather than removed incorporating this into the aged “ rat loo’ (sorry it is not derogatory, they do this in automotive reconstructions now)


View attachment 104255 View attachment 104254 View attachment 104253

Interesting, I’ve never heard of this.
I wonder if it’s like penetrol?
I’ve used penetrol as a finish on some rust finish sculptures I’ve made and it seems to last well (indoors).
 

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I think they are generally speaking , waxes, they are used also in patina preservation for antiques and antique look for brass , bronze and iron

you’ll be shocked to see what people seek to preserve as look click to expand
1619605382800.png
 

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Well, the technically correct but useless answer would be "yes, that reddish corrosion can affect the horn over time."

The useful answer would be "In 500 years or so you may see pitting of the surface; in a couple thousand years, if it's never polished, it's possible that there could be pinholes in the material."

Just polish it with any good quality metal polish and forget about it.

Or, just leave it alone and forget about it.
 

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Looks like a surface type of red rot and not harmful in the sense of eating through the brass.
I recently bought a Dolnet baritone that was covered in it.
Here are some before and after shots.
I used CLR and elbow grease to remove red rot and polished with brasso before citing with an automotive wax.
This is some very impressive work! The guys over here at Fleming's said nice work.
 
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Lady liberty was red before she turned green
Sure. I'm just a bit prejudiced against verdigris, on my wrist or in my mouth. I'm a verdigrisophobic of the most despicable kind. Kissing lady liberty is out of the question, in other words, as alluring as the thought may be.
 

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green oxidation and verdigris are not the same thing.

Proper Verdigris comes from the reaction with a strong acid. Exposre to O2 produces a slow oxidation which is not the same as verdigris although many people call it the same (much as red rot sending people into fibrillation although not every de-zincfications are equally dangerous)
 

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I was there but I stood at her feet, going to the top was only allowed with a complex procedure...
 
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green oxidation and verdigris are not the same thing.

Proper Verdigris comes from the reaction with a strong acid. Exposre to O2 produces a slow oxidation which is not the same as verdigris although many people call it the same (much as red rot sending people into fibrillation although not every de-zincfications are equally dangerous)
This is from Wikipedia:
Verdigris is the common name for a green pigment obtained through the application of acetic acid to copper plates[2] or the natural patina formed when copper, brass or bronze is weathered and exposed to air or seawater over time. It is usually a basic copper carbonate (Cu
2CO3(OH)2), but near the sea will be a basic copper chloride (Cu2(OH)3Cl).[3] If acetic acid is present at the time of weathering, it may consist of copper(II) acetate.
Apparently verdigris can be one of three chemical compounds that all look very similar.

To me "Red Rot" has always been a really disgusting term implying something is "rotten". I think we should start a movement to call it by a more "politically correct" term: "Dezincified Brass". ;)
 
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