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Discussion Starter #1
Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Hi All

I'm not going to name, names, but on a few occasions I had purchased horns that were either not as described, or that a horn that I recently purchased had suffered damages during shipping to me. Then the seller has not replied to many attempts to contact him, and I don't know if he's going to back up his sale, or make good with the repairs needed on the horn.

Especially when it's clearly the sellers fault that damage was caused to the horn for not packing the instrument correctly. So, a bit of advice, make sure when you purchase a horn, especially a high end original plated or lacquered horn which you are paying a premium price for, that you and the seller come to an written agreement as far as to refunds, returns, repair costs and consignments. It's also not right the the seller doesn't even return your phone calls, text messages or emails concerning a problem(s) with a horn you paid a top market valued price for. I pretty sure these warnings and suggestions are posted on the stickies in the discussion sections, but I'm adding them here for those that don't read the sticky notes... Thanks...

Philo
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

If the item was not as described, you should file an "item not as described" grievance with PayPal and initiate a return.

If the horn was damaged during shipping, you should file an insurance claim with the shipper. If that doesn't work due to the seller improperly packing the horn (rare that USPS rejects a damage claim on an insured package, in my experience), follow-up with PayPal for an "item not as described" return.

These are the risks you accept when you pay using PayPal F/F (or money order) and when you don't fully insure the horn for shipping.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Saxdude


I'm in a catch 22... I don't know if the horn was fully insured or not by the seller, and most likely it was either insured for a low amount of coverage, or the basic insurance given by the carrier. Secondly, the horn is at my tech's shop with the tenor, if you read the post, you've answered your own questions. The main problem, seller will not respond to any communications, and I tried all. I understand completely, and think I'll open a damage claim with the carrier iif need be, but my take home message here, is to make sure you both have an agreement on the issue's spoke on my post. What happens is that because of a couple of bad seller (Apples) the confidence of the buyers got the window, if they are n exposed. I'm waiting to see f the seller in question reply's and we can come to an understanding. Thanks for at least commenting and try to help...


Philo
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Hey Philo,

I should've prefaced my post by saying that I'm sorry that you're having, and have had, trouble with sellers here on SOTW. It's a real drag when you can't count on people in the sax community to be honorable in business dealings.

Maybe I misunderstood your initial post - you obviously have more patience than I do when trying to work with a "bad apple" seller. I hope that you can work things out in a reasonable way with this person. If not, I'd encourage you to follow-up with the PayPal dispute process and to name the person here on the forum so that other buyers are aware.

Good luck getting it resolved.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

As Saxydude has suggested you may have recourse through PayPal if that’s how you paid. If you used friends and family option you’re on your own. As for insurance, that should be on the seller. I would NEVER ship a horn uninsured or underinsured and it’s a must to pack well. If they failed in this regard they should provide a full refund, cost of repairs, etc...
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Why would you not name names? If someone does a good or bad job they should be acknowledged for it! I don't believe in anonymity especially when it has repercussions for future buyers. People that do great work should be recognized, and people that do poor work should as well!
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Hi All

I'm not going to name, names, but on a few occasions I had purchased horns that were either not as described, or that a horn that I recently purchased had suffered damages during shipping to me. Then the seller has not replied to many attempts to contact him, and I don't know if he's going to back up his sale, or make good with the repairs needed on the horn.

Especially when it's clearly the sellers fault that damage was caused to the horn for not packing the instrument correctly. So, a bit of advice, make sure when you purchase a horn, especially a high end original plated or lacquered horn which you are paying a premium price for, that you and the seller come to an written agreement as far as to refunds, returns, repair costs and consignments. It's also not right the the seller doesn't even return your phone calls, text messages or emails concerning a problem(s) with a horn you paid a top market valued price for. I pretty sure these warnings and suggestions are posted on the stickies in the discussion sections, but I'm adding them here for those that don't read the sticky notes... Thanks...

Philo
Did you buy off of eBay? Did you buy from an SOTW member? More information please.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

You really run the risk when you buy a horn this way. What happens if you get the horn in perfect condition and as described and it still doesn't meet your expectations? It's always best to play test a horn first and that would mean buying local, in which case you won't have to worry about shipping damages either.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

You really run the risk when you buy a horn this way. What happens if you get the horn in perfect condition and as described and it still doesn't meet your expectations? It's always best to play test a horn first and that would mean buying local, in which case you won't have to worry about shipping damages either.
Trying locally isn't really feasible for most used and vintage horns, especially if you live in a remote area. I'd first give the seller a chance to make things right. There's no reason to drag someone's name through the mud if there's just a misunderstanding or reasonable delay in communication for whatever reason (e.g., holidays). Plus, you still need the seller for any shipping/insurance disputes. If you can't find a resolution or the seller disappears, then definitely dispute through paypal before doing anything to the instrument. Once you have it repaired, you're screwed unless you have an honest seller (which it seems like you may not). If you paid with friends and family and are out of luck, then I think it's important to share your side of the story, expose the seller, and then let the seller share their side of the story. Besides public shaming, what other option do you have if they screwed you over?
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

We need a name and shame review section on SOTW. It would keep people honest and provide a lot of free entertainment for the rest of us!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Hi All

I'm very sorry for the delay in answering some of the comments and suggestions in the few days. I have emailed the seller who sells horns here on our forum SOTW. He has till the end of the week to answer my email and make good on the damaged alto, if he doesn't reply, I will expose the seller's name here and in the Shame Review as suggested by Tranechaser. There's another seller that I will be asking a partial refund on a horn that he over priced and got me to send him a good early Otto Link, which I thought was to sweeten the deal in order to complete the deal. Some members have already told me that I should not trusted the seller an that I did indeed over pay for the horn, and indeed lost out on the resell of the horn. Thanks so much for all your comments and suggestions, as they helped a lot, and I will be more careful from whom I purchase any horns from in the future... Have a Happy and Prosperous New Year, from all of us here in Florida...

Philo
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

I pay the COD charges and open the package before I hand over the check. The UPS guys gets mad at me, but that’s what I’m doing anytime I buy a sax. It only takes a few minutes to see any major damage.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

I pay the COD charges and open the package before I hand over the check. The UPS guys gets mad at me, but that’s what I’m doing anytime I buy a sax. It only takes a few minutes to see any major damage.
Don’t you get resistance to COD from the sellers? How many horns have you refused delivery on?
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

There's another seller that I will be asking a partial refund on a horn that he over priced and got me to send him a good early Otto Link, which I thought was to sweeten the deal in order to complete the deal. Some members have already told me that I should not trusted the seller an that I did indeed over pay for the horn, and indeed lost out on the resell of the horn.
Well, one moment - THIS doesn't sound right to me, at least given how you have explained it.

You knowingly purchased the horn at the price agreed. If the horn arrives as described, there is nothing to 'call out' nor complain about in this instance, no ?

You agreed to the price and the seller delivered the deal. Does one have grounds to publicly call someone out if they receive the horn in the shape described but since the purchase they have come to realize they paid above market value ? Is it reasonable to come back at the seller after receiving the horn and ask for a partial refund because you agreed to purchase it at above the average market value ?? That is a shaky argument.

If it did NOT arrive as described (and I don't mean a ding or two here and there which escaped mention, but something significant) obviously, IMHO you have grounds for being displeased and should try to engage in a dialog with seller.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Don’t you get resistance to COD from the sellers? How many horns have you refused delivery on?
I pay the COD charges. I make sure I’ve communicated a lot with the buyer. If somebody refuses COD there must be something going on wrong. You get a nice little cashiers check in your hand at the end.
I’ve only bought three saxes this way and haven’t refused delivery on any. I ask a lot of questions and get a lot of photos. If the seller isn’t accommodating, I’ll pass.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

There's another seller that I will be asking a partial refund on a horn that he over priced and got me to send him a good early Otto Link, which I thought was to sweeten the deal in order to complete the deal. Some members have already told me that I should not trusted the seller an that I did indeed over pay for the horn...
If you overpay on a horn, that’s on you. Do your homework BEFORE you make a contract to purchase the horn.

If you discover undisclosed damage after receipt, that’s a different thing.

I disagree that there should be a Shame Space, for there will ever be people that make bad choices and lay the blame on someone else. I do wish for the old Marketplace where people could openly discuss the merits of an item, but no one is making you buy anything, so we must accept the way it is.

Have a healthy and happy new year.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

I pay the COD charges. I make sure I’ve communicated a lot with the buyer. If somebody refuses COD there must be something going on wrong. You get a nice little cashiers check in your hand at the end.
I’ve only bought three saxes this way and haven’t refused delivery on any. I ask a lot of questions and get a lot of photos. If the seller isn’t accommodating, I’ll pass.
It’s great that the sellers you’ve dealt with have been accommodating but COD puts a lot of risk on the seller financially.
From UPS site:

“The shipper assumes all risk related to the collection of the payment, including non-payment, insufficient funds, and forgery.”

That opens the seller up to bogus cashiers checks, cancellation of the cashiers check, etc... On the occasions that I accepted a cashiers check, money order or check, I agreed with the buyer that the horn would ship after funds clear the banks. Anything else in a world full of scammers is crazy as a seller! I always accept returns on items shipped if a buyer isn’t satisfied, even when 100% as described. If asked to ship a horn COD I’d pass.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

I disagree that there should be a Shame Space, for there will ever be people that make bad choices and lay the blame on someone else.
Yes, that is pretty ridiculous. SOTW meets Lord of the Flies ?

There is a section already here for discussion of dealer, tech, and member evaluations. The section is adequate should someone choose to publicly complain about an experience with a particular seller/tech.

OF COURSE, the unwritten rule (or is it actually written ?) being you do not 'call out' anyone until you feel you have exhausted all reasonable courses of action to address/resolve directly with the other party....
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

Hi All

I'm very sorry for the delay in answering some of the comments and suggestions in the few days. I have emailed the seller who sells horns here on our forum SOTW. He has till the end of the week to answer my email and make good on the damaged alto, if he doesn't reply, I will expose the seller's name here and in the Shame Review as suggested by Tranechaser. There's another seller that I will be asking a partial refund on a horn that he over priced and got me to send him a good early Otto Link, which I thought was to sweeten the deal in order to complete the deal. Some members have already told me that I should not trusted the seller an that I did indeed over pay for the horn, and indeed lost out on the resell of the horn. Thanks so much for all your comments and suggestions, as they helped a lot, and I will be more careful from whom I purchase any horns from in the future... Have a Happy and Prosperous New Year, from all of us here in Florida...

Philo
I was kind of kidding about the name and shame part. If you do have to go that route, I would check with SOTW moderators first as that’s what caused the last marketplace shut down. You can always call the, out on the Facebook groups without breaking any forum rules.
 

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Re: Be careful purchasing from certain

It’s great that the sellers you’ve dealt with have been accommodating but COD puts a lot of risk on the seller financially.
From UPS site:

“The shipper assumes all risk related to the collection of the payment, including non-payment, insufficient funds, and forgery.”

That opens the seller up to bogus cashiers checks, cancellation of the cashiers check, etc... On the occasions that I accepted a cashiers check, money order or check, I agreed with the buyer that the horn would ship after funds clear the banks. Anything else in a world full of scammers is crazy as a seller! I always accept returns on items shipped if a buyer isn’t satisfied, even when 100% as described. If asked to ship a horn COD I’d pass.
It’s all about communication. It’s worked best for me. I don’t plan on making any more large purchases so I guess I’ve been fortunate.
 
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