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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The front E and F on my Cannonball Raven tenor play so out of tune it’s almost like there is an adjustment that should be made. So I guess my question is has anyone else with this horn experienced this issue and if so are there any repair techs that have any guidance on this issue?
 

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I don’t know if that is what OP means, I use combination of keys but that is not a “ key” if that is not working then also altissimo G isn’t it doesn’t mean there is a key for it.

Anyway, the front F opening may be regulated by a cork or felt or by a special key regulation (on modern horns) , OP may have lost a cork or felt there or that is too thin or thick ( check by how much the from key opens by the F key alone and by how much )
 

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Cannonball Vintage Reborn Tenor Sax with Otto Link STM NY 7
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I think the OP is talking about playing E3 and F3 using the front F key. Generally, in order to get a G3 with front F, some folks adjust the venting, or the opening, of front F to a minimal distance. This makes a better G3, but can sacrifice elsewhere. I get better results using other fingerings. All of these need to be voiced appropriately. If you are using embouchure to do it, that may be the answer. What do you mean by "out?" Flat? Sharp?
I play a Vintage Reborn. Cannonball makes great horns.
 

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Id guess it's flat. Often the front F key vents palm F lower than pressing palm F alone. This is useful for getting altissimo G to speak, however too low, it's going to be flat. Your cannonball probably has a little adjustable arm on that Front F rocker that you can fiddle with the venting by moving it up and down.

He means playing the E above palm Eb using 1,2,3 in the left hand with the front F spatula I'd reckon
 

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Id guess it's flat. Often the front F key vents palm F lower than pressing palm F alone. This is useful for getting altissimo G to speak, however too low, it's going to be flat. Your cannonball probably has a little adjustable arm on that Front F rocker that you can fiddle with the venting by moving it up and down.

He means playing the E above palm Eb using 1,2,3 in the left hand with the front F spatula I'd reckon
That is what I think is happening. It needs to be voiced up. I prefer another fingering for G3, 1 and side F#.
 

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He means playing the E above palm Eb using 1,2,3 in the left hand with the front F spatula I'd reckon
i"d like the OP to tell us. It won't be the first time it's fingered wrong.

Even though mine barely cracks open, it's perfectly in tune on all my horns.
 

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The front E and F on my Cannonball Raven tenor play so out of tune it's almost like there is an adjustment that should be made. So I guess my question is has anyone else with this horn experienced this issue and if so are there any repair techs that have any guidance on this issue?
I echo What's "front E and F?"

Maybe practice, "Altering the air stream and embouchure, using your ears, will bring them in tune.
 

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An alternate fingering for palm F is the A key (middle finger on upper stack) plus the "front F" or auxilliary F key (some call it "fork F"). Adding the 3rd finger lowers the note 1/2 step to high E which is often called the "front E" fingering. Reducing the opening of the F palm key when playing "front F" generally works for that note but makes "front E" more difficult or even impossible to get to "speak". See the first two fingerings on this chart.

109231
 

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well... “ commonly” may be a relative term....although I do use the fingering for E including the Front F I never called it that way or heard it called like this (and many players I’ve met weren’t even aware of this possibility)
 

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Cannonball
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
First tell us exactly how you're fingering those notes.
Exactly how I'm fingering front E. On the left hand thumb-octave, index-fork(key above B), middle-A, ring-G….no other keys pressed.

Front F….same as front E except raising the ring finger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Id guess it's flat. Often the front F key vents palm F lower than pressing palm F alone. This is useful for getting altissimo G to speak, however too low, it's going to be flat. Your cannonball probably has a little adjustable arm on that Front F rocker that you can fiddle with the venting by moving it up and down.

He means playing the E above palm Eb using 1,2,3 in the left hand with the front F spatula I'd reckon
Yes both play super flat. It wouldn't be a big deal if they were sharp. In fact I prefer altissimo fingerings which play sharp because for me bringing a note down is easier than pushing it up. I'll check on the front F rocker.
 

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check the height of the separate keys as said before, the front F should be as open or just a little less open than the F alone
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
An alternate fingering for palm F is the A key (middle finger on upper stack) plus the "front F" or auxilliary F key (some call it "fork F"). Adding the 3rd finger lowers the note 1/2 step to high E which is often called the "front E" fingering. Reducing the opening of the F palm key when playing "front F" generally works for that note but makes "front E" more difficult or even impossible to get to "speak". See the first two fingerings on this chart.

View attachment 109231
What I find interesting about altissimo fingering charts is there's always several fingering for the same note. That being said every horn I've ever played on the front E and F are the same fingering as shown in this chart. Funny enough the altissimo Bb, B, and C fingering on this chart won't even work on my horn lol! In my opinion altissimo fingerings past front F are very horn/mouthpiece specific. Voicing also plays a huge part in getting up past F# with consistency and good intonation.
 

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there are several fingerings because altissimo is not an exact science and responds differently on different designs , my King S20 is , for example, different
 

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Exactly how I'm fingering front E. On the left hand thumb-octave, index-fork(key above B), middle-A, ring-G….no other keys pressed.

Front F….same as front E except raising the ring finger.
That's correct. In my experience, the F can open very little and not hurt intonation. Maybe it's opening too much? Otherwise it's probably the way you're voicing. Those are technically altissimo notes.

I've never tried it, but adding some RH keys might change the pitch.
 
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