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Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
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and a skilled and extensive workforce! Very commendable in these days of work scarcity! As I said we have to alert the BBC evening news about these new enterprise in Britain!
Let’s go public with a video and detailed production pictures of Brass and woodwinds!
 

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Distinguished SOTW Technician.
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Well, here in the UK we have the National Association of Musical Instrument Repairs. NAMIR. They have trips to various factories, museums and shops. It'd be nice if NAMIR were invited round. One of the recent places they visited was the Hanson factory which do make some instruments, and some are made in China.
www.namir.org.uk
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
There seems to be a new email contol system in place called SPAMarrest. Never seent his on a commercial email address - or otherwise.

Do you want to sign a form granting them the right to charge you $2000 dollars if your email spams them? Hmmm, having received spam from myself when I use plenty of spam filters, I'm not so sure.

SENDER AGREEMENT - By clicking the "VERIFY" button above, and in consideration for Spam Arrest, LLC forwarding your e-mail (and any e-mails you may send in the future) to the intended recipient (the "Recipient"), you agree to be bound by the following Sender Agreement:

"You represent and warrant to Spam Arrest and the Recipient that any e-mail you desire to send to the Recipient is not "unsolicited commercial e-mail" i.e., the e-mail does not primarily contain an advertisement or promotion of a commercial product, service or Web site; unless the Recipient expressly consented to receive the message, either in response to a clear and conspicuous request for such consent or at the Recipient's own initiative. Further, you represent and warrant that your transmission of any e-mail does not violate any local, state or federal law governing the transmission of unsolicited commercial e-mail, including, but not limited to, RCW § 19.190.020 or the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. You understand and acknowledge that it is fair and reasonable that you agree to abide by the restrictions set forth in this agreement. You acknowledge and agree that this agreement is central to Spam Arrest's decision to forward your e-mails to the Recipient. Accordingly, if you violate this agreement, Spam Arrest and the Recipient shall be entitled to (1) temporary and/or permanent injunctive relief to restrain any further breaches or violations of this agreement; and (2) damages in the amount of two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) for each violation of this agreement. You acknowledge that such remedies are appropriate and reasonable in light of the costs and expenses Spam Arrest incurs as a result of eradicating and filtering unsolicited commercial e-mail. You acknowledge that the $2000.00 remedy is a reasonable estimate of Spam Arrest's and the Recipient's actual damages. This agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Washington and the exclusive venue for any action related to this agreement shall be held in the state and federal courts located in Washington. You hereby waive any right to object to venue or jurisdiction based on inconvenient forum, lack of personal jurisdiction or for any other reason."
 

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Non Resident SOTW Eccentric & 2012 Forum Contribut
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I think you need a cypopywriter too!
Nope I need an editor or some new glasses. LOL I am beginning to dislike my iPad as it seems to change letters in strange ways.
 

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There seems to be a new email contol system in place called SPAMarrest. Never seent his on a commercial email address - or otherwise.

Do you want to sign a form granting them the right to charge you $2000 dollars if your email spams them? Hmmm, having received spam from myself when I use plenty of spam filters, I'm not so sure.

SENDER AGREEMENT - By clicking the "VERIFY" button above, and in consideration for Spam Arrest, LLC forwarding your e-mail (and any e-mails you may send in the future) to the intended recipient (the "Recipient"), you agree to be bound by the following Sender Agreement:

"You represent and warrant to Spam Arrest and the Recipient that any e-mail you desire to send to the Recipient is not "unsolicited commercial e-mail" i.e., the e-mail does not primarily contain an advertisement or promotion of a commercial product, service or Web site; unless the Recipient expressly consented to receive the message, either in response to a clear and conspicuous request for such consent or at the Recipient's own initiative. Further, you represent and warrant that your transmission of any e-mail does not violate any local, state or federal law governing the transmission of unsolicited commercial e-mail, including, but not limited to, RCW § 19.190.020 or the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. You understand and acknowledge that it is fair and reasonable that you agree to abide by the restrictions set forth in this agreement. You acknowledge and agree that this agreement is central to Spam Arrest's decision to forward your e-mails to the Recipient. Accordingly, if you violate this agreement, Spam Arrest and the Recipient shall be entitled to (1) temporary and/or permanent injunctive relief to restrain any further breaches or violations of this agreement; and (2) damages in the amount of two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) for each violation of this agreement. You acknowledge that such remedies are appropriate and reasonable in light of the costs and expenses Spam Arrest incurs as a result of eradicating and filtering unsolicited commercial e-mail. You acknowledge that the $2000.00 remedy is a reasonable estimate of Spam Arrest's and the Recipient's actual damages. This agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Washington and the exclusive venue for any action related to this agreement shall be held in the state and federal courts located in Washington. You hereby waive any right to object to venue or jurisdiction based on inconvenient forum, lack of personal jurisdiction or for any other reason."
Hi "Oric Muso" (Obviously without the balls to do anything other than hide behind anonymity) - Your IT knowledge is obviously about as extensive as your acoustic and musical expertise. Operating as I do, as international business, we're a prime target for spammers! Consequently, it's essential to have a safe and secure system in place to deal with it. If you want to contact Spamarrest to check on their authenticity please feel free to do so.
In the interim I suggest you write to the Scriptwriters Guild as they're always looking for talented scriptwriters for comedians!
Tony Rodwell
 

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Distinguished SOTW Technician.
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Hi "Oric Muso" (Obviously without the balls to do anything other than hide behind anonymity) - Your IT knowledge is obviously about as extensive as your acoustic and musical expertise. Operating as I do, as international business, we're a prime target for spammers! Consequently, it's essential to have a safe and secure system in place to deal with it. If you want to contact Spamarrest to check on their authenticity please feel free to do so.
In the interim I suggest you write to the Scriptwriters Guild as they're always looking for talented scriptwriters for comedians!
Tony Rodwell
I do a lot of online trading and have not come across that one before.
If anyone needs a scriptwriter it's you as you fail to answer any points raised. Your aggressive stance seems to put towards a lack of being able to defend the flawed statements on your website. If anyone is hiding, it is you.
 

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My name is Chris Waters and I am responsible for the design of the Raw Brass range of instruments; soprano saxophone, alto saxophone, tenor saxophone, trumpet, cornet and flugel horn.

I started the design process on the basis the world did not need yet another very good saxophone, trumpet, cornet or flugel horn. It needed something which is better; the sort of development that has gone on in general for years by manufacturers worldwide. By virtue of this the instruments had to be designed differently and as such, of course, would be revolutionary and different.

All I have done is to combine my expert acoustic, metallurgy and engineering knowledge with the practical side of my musicianship as a gigging musician to develop this Raw Brass range.

Equally so the detailing of technical and practical reasons why our instruments are so respected is greatly appreciated by genuinely interested and open minded amateur and professional musicians from as far away as South Africa! Musicians ask “Why is this instrument so responsive”? “Why does this instrument project so well”? “Why is the sound so centred when I play it – and why does it look like a piece of plain brass”? Not mumbo-jumbo as someone commented; just basic acoustic physics!

A lot of time, effort and money went into the development of this range of instruments! That they will never make us a fortune is without question! However, they will undoubtedly give great pleasure to those musicians who play them and leave a legacy from which others will, perhaps, continue to develop their own designs to produce better and better instruments; better instruments for us all.

To those of you who assume by default this is simply a company importing from Taiwan, China or India you are grossly mistaken. We have never stated instruments are 100% manufactured in the UK; nor do we purport them to be. Like the majority of manufacturers we produce some component parts ourselves and from those make sub-assemblies through to complete sections then final assemblies. Again, like other manufacturers, we purchase component parts from other manufacturers. Most importantly the final build is carried out in the UK to the highest quality by respected technicians; saxophone-wise ensuring the perfect seating of the pads and offering the options of low, medium or high to our customer’s requirements in terms of action, porting and spring strength. To ensure an air-tight fit and speedy action we hone our trumpet, cornet and flugel horn valves to 0.0002.
Our instruments will not suit everyone! One size fits all is not a maxim which works in any facet of life! Consequently, if you haven’t tried one you’re in no position to sit in judgement making adverse comments! Unless, of course, you’re a competitor with a vested interest! Try one and then make comment!

My suggestion to moaners is to focus your minds on the fact that someone has been prepared to spend time and money (without any guarantee of a return on investment) in trying to develop and improve the saxophone, trumpet, cornet and flugel horn and less time on being cynical. We are a small UK-based design and manufacturing company in a factory based in Bognor Regis trying our best!

It may interest you to know that the factory manufactures component parts for other musical instrument companies; including one very large one!!

A FREE OFFER:- If you would like try one of our Raw Brass instruments or listen to them being played by professionals we are happy to give you a complimentary ticket plus one for a friend for the Raw Brass Band concert at The Forge, Camden, London on Friday 30th March; doors open at 7pm. We’ll have a display stand there showing our full range of Raw Brass instruments, their components parts AND there will be pictures of the factory, tooling, machines and our technicians.

Once having done so we would welcome all comments to be posted here from those people who have listened to and tried Raw Brass; thus enabling them to comment on experienced-based facts.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
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To those of you who assume by default this is simply a company importing from Taiwan, China or India you are grossly mistaken. We have never stated instruments are 100% manufactured in the UK; nor do we purport them to be. Like the majority of manufacturers we produce some component parts ourselves and from those make sub-assemblies through to complete sections then final assemblies. Again, like other manufacturers, we purchase component parts from other manufacturers. Most importantly the final build is carried out in the UK to the highest quality by respected technicians; saxophone-wise ensuring the perfect seating of the pads and offering the options of low, medium or high to our customer's requirements in terms of action, porting and spring strength. .........
Does this mean that you are going to invite some respected technicians and SOTW members from the UK to come and visit your assembly line? Will you publish a video on you tube showing us the instruments that you assemble? Which are the parts made in the UK that you manufacture yourself ? Are the Instruments marked as Made in England or as Assembled in England or are they not marked at all?
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Mouthpiece Maker
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are you going to invite some British members to visit your production facilities and show them instruments in the making ?
Does this mean that you are going to invite some respected technicians and SOTW members from the UK to come and visit your assembly line? Will you publish a video on you tube showing us the instruments that you assemble? Which are the parts made in the UK that you manufacture yourself ? Are the Instruments marked as Made in England or as Assembled in England or are they not marked at all?
Getting a bit carried away with the skepticism IMO. I don't think he really deserves this hard a time about this. They might not be the most internet savvy business but that doesn't say anything about the quality of their product or about their business practices. I'm much less interested in what's made where than in how these horns play. If somebody's making good instruments here and/or has something innovative, I want to know bout it.
 

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Well, regardless of my opinion of the copywriting, which is just marketing stuff, I wish Rawbrass and his colleagues good luck in their venture.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Technician.
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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Thank you for finally attempting to answer some questions for us. It's not been easy getting a reasonable response!

I have no issue with the quality of your instruments. I havent' seen them yet so can't really comment. My concern was with regard your claim on the website that compares a cymbal or bell to wind instruments. Basic acoustics tells us these are technically different. There are many heated debates on here regarding materials and finshes and their impact on the sound. The science seems to suggest the metal has little effect on the sound whilst musicians tend to think that it does.

So we'd like know, I think, what is 'random mass brass', how it differs, if at all, from normal brass. And why you think the brass of a wind instrument, is comparable to a cymbal?

(There is BTW some mention somewhere on your site a comment saying, at last a 100% British company producing ... or words to that effect which sound a bit like you are saying the instruments are made in Brtiain. )
 

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My name is Chris Waters and I am responsible for the design of the Raw Brass range of instruments; soprano saxophone, alto saxophone, tenor saxophone, trumpet, cornet and flugel horn.

All I have done is to combine my expert acoustic, metallurgy and engineering knowledge with the practical side of my musicianship as a gigging musician to develop this Raw Brass range.

Equally so the detailing of technical and practical reasons why our instruments are so respected is greatly appreciated by genuinely interested and open minded amateur and professional musicians from as far away as South Africa! Musicians ask "Why is this instrument so responsive"? "Why does this instrument project so well"? "Why is the sound so centred when I play it - and why does it look like a piece of plain brass"? Not mumbo-jumbo as someone commented; just basic acoustic physics!
Chris, thanks for popping in to talk about your instruments. It's always interesting to see new designs out there, doubly so if they actually demonstrate a step forward in the art. So if you have a minute for the more technically inclined among us -- what are the metallurgical or acoustic improvements that are applied here? Why are these instruments better? What exactly makes them revolutionary and different?
 

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Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
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i......f somebody's making good instruments here and/or has something innovative, I want to know bout it.
That is exactly what I want to know........are you offering yourself to be one of the illustrious visitors of this new manufacturer?

It will do them lot a good to have people such as yourself visit the company and help answering these and other questions.

I too was under the impression that the company claimed they made a British product . I just want to know how their product qualifies as a British product or a British assembled foreign product.
 

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Unfortunately, at the point at which some intelligent comments are being posted, this will have to be the last contribution from either Chris or myself about our Raw Brass instruments. Unlike some contributors to the discussion we have a business to run and, unlike them, do not have the luxury of time to spend attempting to score frivolous points or over inflate their own self-importance.
In parting I would like to thank everyone who took part in the forum. The ‘discussion’ significantly raised the profile of our instruments; resulting in the greatest number of serious enquiries we’ve ever received in one week! Thank you!

To the two ‘doubting Thomas’s’ who didn’t get the answers to questions they felt they were entitled I would ask they substantiate their justification for the accusations made by posting their musical and scientific credentials on the forum!

Finally! The comment “100% British Company” is an extract from a lengthy and glowing testimonial written by renowned soprano saxophonist Mornington Lockett. Those who know anything about Marketing/PR and don’t just buy and flog stuff on eBay will know you can’t be responsible for what people write. Unless, of course, you’re a tabloid newspaper reader! In which case you accept everything verbatim!

Any follow up can be directed to us at The Forge on 30th March.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
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Unfortunately, at the point at which some intelligent comments are being posted, this will have to be the last contribution from either Chris or myself about our Raw Brass instruments. Unlike some contributors to the discussion we have a business to run and, unlike them, do not have the luxury of time to spend attempting to score frivolous points or over inflate their own self-importance.
YAGE in only 4 posts - a SotW record!

In parting I would like to thank everyone who took part in the forum. The 'discussion' significantly raised the profile of our instruments; resulting in the greatest number of serious enquiries we've ever received in one week! Thank you!
Does anyone else feel used?

Enjoy and good luck.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member
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Unfortunately, at the point at which some intelligent comments are being posted, this will have to be the last contribution from either Chris or myself about our Raw Brass instruments. Unlike some contributors to the discussion we have a business to run and, unlike them, do not have the luxury of time to spend attempting to score frivolous points or over inflate their own self-importance.
In parting I would like to thank everyone who took part in the forum. The 'discussion' significantly raised the profile of our instruments; resulting in the greatest number of serious enquiries we've ever received in one week! Thank you!

To the two 'doubting Thomas's' who didn't get the answers to questions they felt they were entitled I would ask they substantiate their justification for the accusations made by posting their musical and scientific credentials on the forum!

Finally! The comment "100% British Company" is an extract from a lengthy and glowing testimonial written by renowned soprano saxophonist Mornington Lockett. Those who know anything about Marketing/PR and don't just buy and flog stuff on eBay will know you can't be responsible for what people write. Unless, of course, you're a tabloid newspaper reader! In which case you accept everything verbatim!

Any follow up can be directed to us at The Forge on 30th March.
I'm pretty sure their doubts have a little something to do with the new "sax manufacturers" that pop up here every few months or so promising to be the next Great Saxophone Maker (or the Next Mk VI) and then it turns out that they... stretched the truth a little bit. As potential customers, I think we should be allowed to be skeptical and I would think (if you're on the level) you would RELISH the chance to show how you're different. Or not. If your plan is to do so on March 30th, then by all means...
 

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Random Mass - wow. i would be wondering if my alto was going to weigh 6, 60, or 600 pounds. assuming the acoustics dont change with material, finish, etc. why would i want a heavy horn. assuming material does matter, then id be accepting random tone quality too? either way, id pass on those horns.

Now if you try them and they play nice, does it really matter why?
 
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