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Distinguished SOTW Technician.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a new one on me. A new company in UK called County Instruments is making saxophones. They seem to be nice but I dispair at the claims they are making.
Has anyone ever heard of random mass brass?

Supposedly they are advised by an acoustic expert who they fail to name. :tsk:

Anyone care to comment on what they are saying?

http://www.rawbrass.co.uk
 

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Non Resident SOTW Eccentric & 2012 Forum Contribut
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I assume from raw brass Ithat it has no polishing or finishing work. Instant vintage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
They don't have very good pictures, but it doesn't seem to have any finsh on the body. Keys appear to be lacquered.
Raw Brass seems to be the brand of the horn as well as what they are. I'm nto sure what the random mass thing is supposed to be.
 

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I hesitate to comment but:a sax is not a BELL and doesn't act or resonate like one. Try taking a clapper to your horn, if you don't believe it. What possible relationship could there be between what a horn's made of and how easily it blows? It seems to be more of the unsubstantiated marketing hype so easily found from marketers.
 

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"RANDOM MASS density increases frequencies, amplifies and attenuates sound."

"Random mass density" implies to me uncontrolled porosity in their metal. Either that or just a crappy distribution of impurities.
 

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Very succinctly put Dr. G amplifies well that is easy attenuates that is the opposite Way above my pay grade
 

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aside form any marketing mambo jumbo which , one way or other, is used by all sorts of makers. I am, as usual, VERY skeptical of anybody claiming they actually make a saxophone from scratch unless they show me a production line of some sort, I am even skeptical of those they only claim assembling a horn with parts made in (China? Taiwan?).

A company who claims to MAKE woodwind and brass ( saxes,trumpets,flugelhorns, cornets, clarinets) in the UK should as first and foremost marketing instrument show the facilities, which, in my experience , if they are producing these variety of instruments, should be a rather messy affair with a considerable number of people employed there, by the way, where is THERE?

they fail to quote any address or at least, I couldn't find it on the site, does anybody know where these folks are?
 

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aside form any marketing mambo jumbo which , one way or other, is used by all sorts of makers. I am, as usual, VERY skeptical of anybody claiming they actually make a saxophone from scratch unless they show me a production line of some sort, I am even skeptical of those they only claim assembling a horn with parts made in (China? Taiwan?).

A company who claims to MAKE woodwind and brass ( saxes,trumpets,flugelhorns, cornets, clarinets) in the UK should as first and foremost marketing instrument show the facilities, which, in my experience , if they are producing these variety of instruments, should be a rather messy affair with a considerable number of people employed there, by the way, where is THERE?

they fail to quote any address or at least, I couldn't find it on the site, does anybody know where these folks are?
Great Guns, man! Pay attention!
To wit:
"South of England"
"100% British company"
"County Instruments (TM)"
Simple triangulation with a spot of dead reckoning thrown in! You needn't be Sherlock Holmes!

I'm sold. With their "UK Craftsmanship and Quality Control", I think the world-renowned trumpet man, Damon Brown, summed it up with his gushing endorsement: "Good Luck to Raw Brass".
 

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I get it, sarcasm, right.......yes, all fine and dandy :bluewink: but if all of that is the case.................. where is this place of exceptional rarity these days?

I know of western companies in the music business closing down and if there is anywhere in England a new company starting making musical instruments on site and employing British people this would have made the BBC evening news!

How about a simple address which one would be able to look up on google earth or street view or even go to pay a courtesy visit?
 

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How about a simple address which one would be able to look up on google earth or street view or even go to pay a courtesy visit?
Did you try running a trace on their IP?
 

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Simple. Check out http://www.hotfrog.co.uk/Companies/Internet-Reeds. The person running County Instruments (and its daughter company Internet Reeds) seems to be Mr. Steve Barnes. The physical address of the company is given on the page linked to by the url above.

My guess is that the "Random Mass" part of the trademark is just a made-up name, that doesn't tell anything about the actual properties of the material used.

My guess is also that very few, if any, people get rich from designing, manufacturing, assembling, marketing, selling, or repairing musical instruments or mouthpieces. I personally respect anyone who thinks he brings a new idea to the market, and sets up a company to do this - as long as they run the business honestly.
 

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of course we might be all unnecessarily skeptical and it might very well be that Mr. Barnes reads these words and will invite some most prominent British SOTW members as his most honoured guests to visit his new manufacturing company and to sample the Britishness of his Mass Brass quality production .......... or NOT!

Excuse me police constable, could you please direct me to this new factory in the area, I don't seem to be able to find it.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ8gEwAA

ACTUALLY, why don't you come with me to pay a visit to this new industrialist Mr. Barnes? :twisted:
 

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I'm no scientist, but the bit about the "rimless" bell making the upper register more responsive seems more than a little suspect. Unless my understanding of how a sax works on an acoustic level is totally wrong, when I'm blowing, for example, a high f, most of the sound is coming out of the next tone whole down, or at least the upper stack, therefore making the bell literally the least relevant part of the horn to the upper register...
 

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well, brass instruments work in a different way and there they might actually have a point if they limited those assertions to brass alone!
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member and Forum Contributor
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The real benefit of random mass brass is that, because of the random frequencies produced by the brass, those of us who have spells of fingering the wrong note have a reasonable expectation that the sax will produce a note other than the one we finger. Thus a random mass brass saxophone has the potential to correct our errors.
 

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well, we might ask them to work towards a stochastic brass




stochastic |stəˈkastik|
adjective
randomly determined; having a random probability distribution or pattern that may be analyzed statistically but may not be predicted precisely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Simple. Check out http://www.hotfrog.co.uk/Companies/Internet-Reeds. The person running County Instruments (and its daughter company Internet Reeds) seems to be Mr. Steve Barnes. The physical address of the company is given on the page linked to by the url above.

My guess is that the "Random Mass" part of the trademark is just a made-up name, that doesn't tell anything about the actual properties of the material used.

My guess is also that very few, if any, people get rich from designing, manufacturing, assembling, marketing, selling, or repairing musical instruments or mouthpieces. I personally respect anyone who thinks he brings a new idea to the market, and sets up a company to do this - as long as they run the business honestly.
Interesting, I was told they had a place in Bognor Regis where the instruments were made. Sale price seems to be around £1800 which is I think too little for instruments to be made entirely in the UK. Trevor James for instance sutom build instruments from part made in Taiwan selling for around £2500.
There is meant to be an article about the firm in the latest issue of the Jazz UK magazine. You can download it free online but they just have the last issue at the moment. http://www.jazzservices.org.uk/
The website says....The concept of Random Mass Raw BrassTM is the brainchild of a senior acoustic engineer with more than forty years experience as a professional musician.
But it doesn't say whether he intended to make any sense or not.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Technician.
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Can't comment as I can't even tell what they are saying. "increases frequencies?" "amplifies and attenuates sound"?
You'd think random mass would have the opposite affect - if anything (?)
 

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You'd think random mass would have the opposite affect - if anything (?)
Increasing freqeuncies is what, it plays sharper? The rest of it, they're already oppisites.

Not surprised to hear there's a workshop elsewhere -- would be tough to make trumpets in the office/flat/whatever it is there above the pawn shop. Is this a new venture? You know anything about the horns? They seem to be making a lot of instruments and I would have thought I would have heard of them.
 
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