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Discussion Starter #1
hi Guys,

I have two offers from saxellos,

a used saxello R&C gold brushed body, gold polished cups and keys (2 owners) and ...

a P.Mauriat Tipped bell PMSS601 in gold lacker from a Music store.(played in the store)

the P.mauriats are most only available in Vintage finish. this one was a special order in Goild lacquer and the purchaser dind´t buy it so the horn stay in the store.

which of the two would be more horn for you in playability and soundcore, the finish is secondary for me.


thanks for your inputs it can help me to make a decision
 

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Play them both and pick a sound/feel. (if you're just learning, get a teacher to check them out as well)
 

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I once owned a new R&C tipped-bell soprano in gold-plate. Very nice soprano, but nothing extra special, at least enough for me to keep it . . . and I don't miss it. Those horns have been discussed over and over here on SOTW. Look through the R&C threads.

I have not played a PM tipped-bell sop. But I can't imagine that either one is any different from a regular soprano except in appearance. That was the case with mine - it sounded like a soprano.

If I had to choose one over the other, I'd choose the R&C because I've owned one (and two other R&C saxophones) and trust them to be players. DAVE
 

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I have played the tipped bell P. Mauriat and, it is a very nice soprano. Yes, it sounds liek a soprano, but it is a little warmer because of the tipped bell. The intonation was spot on and the ergonomics felt very good; very, very good. The scale is even and the the response is effortless. I have not played a R&C, but I would definatle recommend the P. Mauriat. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks guys. Yes, I have readed all postings about R&C´s and P.Mauriats. I talk with a dealer today and he said to me that the R&C´s don´t sound so good like a P.mauriats (we speak from the saxellos)
He offers me one for 1820 U$ in gold lacquer, as told, a special order ones. I think I will go on. To this sax I intend to order a jary Custom sop MPC. unfortunately The Morgan JAZZ L Soprano modells aren´t longer available. (info from Junkdude)
 

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Trahansax: I am not trying to pick a fight, but I will direct you to a thread in this section about curved vs. straight sopranos. You say that the PM tipped-bell is a bit warmer than other sopranos because of the tipped bell.

I disagree. And, I realize that my disagreement is merely opinion (as are all posts on SOTW). But in my view, the position of the bell has nothing to do with it. Each individual saxophone from 'nino to contra-bass, has its own sound, even among the same brand/model. As a consequence, two PM tipped-bell sops could be played side-by-side and each could emit its own tonal qualities - and like I've said many times before, the player is probably the least-qualified person to assess the played horn's tone, especially if objectivity is desired.

I just don't think the original poster should walk away from this thread thinking that any tipped-bell sop will sound warmer because of the bell. CONN-hunter would be wise to take all of this with a grain of salt - and reach his/her own conclusions. DAVE
 

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Dave Dolson said:
Trahansax: I am not trying to pick a fight, but I will direct you to a thread in this section about curved vs. straight sopranos. You say that the PM tipped-bell is a bit warmer than other sopranos because of the tipped bell.

I disagree. And, I realize that my disagreement is merely opinion (as are all posts on SOTW). But in my view, the position of the bell has nothing to do with it. Each individual saxophone from 'nino to contra-bass, has its own sound, even among the same brand/model. As a consequence, two PM tipped-bell sops could be played side-by-side and each could emit its own tonal qualities - and like I've said many times before, the player is probably the least-qualified person to assess the played horn's tone, especially if objectivity is desired.

I just don't think the original poster should walk away from this thread thinking that any tipped-bell sop will sound warmer because of the bell. CONN-hunter would be wise to take all of this with a grain of salt - and reach his/her own conclusions. DAVE
I understand that you are not trying to pick and argument, nor am I. I am wantign to clear up what warmer is, and then darker. The tipped bell will give it a warmer sound especially around e, d, low c and then on, because of the change in the angle of the bore around those notes. I do agree with you that each and every saxophone will have it's own tonal qualities, and to really asses what one wants, you really need to play on a horn before you decide. I always base my conclusions on tests. When I play test horns, I never just play the horn by itself. I a/b the horn with my horn, and then a series of horns. But then it could be the actual bore size changes that make the P. Mauriat Tipped bell a litte warmer. But you said it right, it's always good to hear someones opinion, but you really need to go out and get your own opinion about these things.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I loved your comments! thanks. I tested today 3 sax in my break. It will demand a long time but I will find the best for me ;')
 

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Buescher Tip Bell

I don't know how much you want to spend, but there is also a very nice Buescher Tip Bell for sale on Saxquest for USD4,750.00. I have one in my collection and it is one of my favourites to play, as the slight bend in the neck seems just about perfect ergonomically for comfortable playing. However, I have to say that I can't tell any difference in sound between it and my other straight Buescher sopranos.
 

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trahansax said:
I have played the tipped bell P. Mauriat and, it is a very nice soprano. Yes, it sounds liek a soprano, but it is a little warmer because of the tipped bell. The intonation was spot on and the ergonomics felt very good; very, very good. The scale is even and the the response is effortless. I have not played a R&C, but I would definatle recommend the P. Mauriat. Good luck.

Other than the comment about the soprano being warmer because of the tipped bell (on this I agree with Dave D), Trahansax's comments on the PM tipped bell sax are bang on. Though I haven't done a side by side comparison to the R&C tipped bell, I have done a side to side comparison to the PM tipped bell sop with a R&C curved sop (not the R1 Jazz version) with the result that I am selling the PM and keeping the R&C. To my ears, the R&C is has a deeper, warmer tone with a better altisimo register. As well, the fit and finish on the R&C is more professionally done. I suspect that the R1 Jazz could be even deeper and warmer. However, if price is a significant factor, then the PM is definitely recommended.

W.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi, I am really no more sure if my first sop will be a modern ones. I know NOW that it must to have a curved neck like the saxello, or a whole curved soprano. I didn´t like the curved so much because I found it to small but I definetely don´t want a straight because it´s not comfortable to play for me. I tested yesterday in the store Yanagisawa S981 and yamaha 475 II. also, no core for my ears. I play hier Chu Berry and Zephyr tenor and alto sax. I have also a modern altosax SX90R what sounds very american, great sax. I miss sound core in the modern horns. I think maybe won´t have a PM Saxello a sound with character.(?) maybe not, warmness? yes, the bronze modells from yana and other taiwan brands are warm too. Core is a other matter.
a R&C! yes. I have to try one but is difficult to get a dealer where I can test it. The R&C factory is 320 miles far away from me (ops, I dind´t wish to tell that I´m not american, but you see it in my english I think : ' )
the R&C´s are pricey too.
otherwise, I think seriously to get a try with a curved Buescher or CONN. the tipped bell Vintages are extremly high pricey. very desirable but I wish still married with my wife. lol
 

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CONN-hunter: I get the impression that you have yet to play-test many sopranos of any design. While all of this is interesting, you may want to try several yourself before reaching any conclusions. I would be particularly leery of a retailer who makes a claim that the R&C version isn't as good as the PM, unless you know this retailer and have reason to trust his objectivity.

Another factor in making your decision is affordability. If you are in a financial position to take the risk, by all means believe what you read here or what some dealer told you. But if you are on a budget and the next saxophone you buy is going to be the last saxophone you buy, you'd be better off to search out examples of all designs and makes and make your own decision.

I'm telling you from personal experience that the R&C tipped-bell I owned would hold its own against any soprano made. Of course there may be better examples and lesser examples of each brand and shape, but a blanket statement that the R&C isn't as good sounds VERY biased and subjective to me. I wouldn't make such a claim unless I wanted to sell you something!.

I'm guessing that any of the decent Taiwanese-made sopranos these days will play well, especially if they are set up properly (meaning tight pads, etc.) and that few of us could find flaws among them all. Oh, we may find one that we like better, but that is again - subjective, and our choice to make. None of us should reach that conclusion based on what we are told or what we read here.

I'm not trying to lecture - I'm trying to assist you in making a good decision. There is a difference among various necks, too, so before you discard one over the other, play a bunch. DAVE
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I agree with you. at least I will decide, I alone. however the experience and the meaning from other players can be very usefull.
You are right, the retailer that told me the r&c don´t sounds soo good is a PM dealer !! hahaha lol
by the way... I love the vintage sound. Some modern horns can sounds almost beautifull but one really good with modern ergonomics like a R&C saxello (4000 U$) is too expensive for my budget. a straight sop is not my taste. Also, I believe that some horns in the market would be a match for me like the JK sx90II for example (with 2 necks, I need a bent neck)
I think, that a R&C would be fine because it has a big bore design. peter ponzol earlier by JK Germany had help Rampone & cazzani to design the modern horns! the italian R&C are built very similar to the german JK´s and they sound dark, big bore horns.
No doubt dave, I will try many horns and my first sop won´t be the last, no no (lol) I have had more than 4 10M´s and own 9 horns at this time (a bit too much).
I try to get the first to keep, anyway.
I know, you are a TT straight sax player : ' )
 

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Sounds like you're a vintage man to me. Dave will smile but I got my hands on a King saxello..the original saxello that influenced Buescher to make a tipped TT ( and might be a better horn I hear). I had it restored and I love this horn although it's quirky and wouldn't suit everyone it's got a vibe and has a huge voice..but then I like Rahsaan , Elton Dean, Bennie Maupin etc
I've been attracted to the RC because of it's vintage look but I haven't played one yet.. I haven't liked any modern soprano I've tried as much as my old V1 and this. Try to get your hands on a nice TT.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
you´re right

Hi Micheal,

yes, I am a vintage man, no doubt and my forum ID is just 100% correct , the right match to me..haha

my hunting for my first soprano is over...yeahhh and as a CONN-hunter, that I am:D I bought from our fellow "woodwindproshoppe" here in the forum (Sean Prather, Montgomery AL) the pretty CONN curved from the marketplace.
This is a keeper. the price was fairly good I think. I still don´t get the sax, it is just on the way to me.

some tipps for the MPC to match this baby?:binky: it is pretty, isn´t?

http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=65207
 
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