[Geolm]

Hi,

is there a tip to play quickly F then Gb then Eb ? (not in the palm key range btw). I'd like to use the F# key but I can't go to Eb from that without taking a lot of time so I am using the cross fingering xxx|0x0 for F# but it's not ideal. It's not a big deal but I,m asking just in case someone as a magic fingering/trick !

Thanks
Geolm

 

[Samusax]

As far as I know there's not another way unless you're using an old horn that has the extra Eb trill key but that still might be awkward... by "the F# key" do you mean the alt/trill F# key? I wouldn't use the alt F# key since there's no way you can move your ring finger from the alt F# to the D pearl cleanly and quickly without getting extra notes coming out during the transition. That key is a trill key designed more for F-Gb-F-E. I would use the RH middle finger for F# as you mentioned.

You'll just need to get used to the fingering from F# to Eb - start by practicing slowly between those two notes and then gradually speeding it up. The goal is to get your RH index, ring, and pinky fingers moving together as one unit.

 

[Geolm]

using the standard xxx|0x0 for F# and going to Eb is not a problem, I was trying to use the alt/trill key to have a clean F->F# transition but as you said it's almost impossible to jump to Eb with F# trill/alt key I have to use the standard F# fingering.

 

[lostcircuits]

If you practice enough, even the most awkward transitions will become very fluid but it's always good to look for easier solutions. But then, they may not exist and it is back to just finger dexterity and practice. Not really fun but it helps when you record yourself and monitor the progress over a few days.

 

[turf3]

I can't say without the full context but using the high Eb fingering (palm keys) without octave key may offer you some help. How far out of tune that fingering is, varies considerably from one horn to the next.

 

[Alain Gen]

Hmm... The alt F# key is useful, but a completely clean F/F# transition is possible with the "cross" fingering 123/5 for F# -even in a fast passage. Using systematically alt F# when you have to play F-F# is overkill.

 

[LostConn]

Hmm... The alt F# key is useful, but a completely clean F/F# transition is possible with the "cross" fingering 123/5 for F# -even in a fast passage. Using systematically alt F# when you have to play F-F# is overkill.

There are some old Rubank book technical exercises involving F-to-F# switches in both octaves that I still play occasionally. I always play them with both the "regular" fingerings and the alternate F# key, at various tempos. The alt F# key always has a higher speed limit for clean sequences than flipping between R1 and R2. It's just a smoother fingering for an extreme tempo.

However, when there's an Eb after an F#/Gb, you have to use the standard fingering. OP, there's no magic to be applied here. Just repeat as often as necessary to build speed while still playing cleanly.

 

[saxoclese]

What about playing the F# XXX|OOX adding the Eb key? This would require the sax to be in good regulation to play the RH3 F# clearly. Just a thought.

 

[LostConn]

What about playing the F# XXX|OOX adding the Eb key? This would require the sax to be in good regulation to play the RH3 F# clearly. Just a thought.

I think that flipping from R1 to R3 might be trickier than flipping from R1 to R2. Also, R3 is pretty weak when it has to move all by itself to close that pad. R2 is a more robust finger, hence it produces a more reliable fingering.

 

[StuartSax]

using the standard xxx|0x0 for F# and going to Eb is not a problem, I was trying to use the alt/trill key to have a clean F->F# transition but as you said it's almost impossible to jump to Eb with F# trill/alt key I have to use the standard F# fingering.

The F to F# and B to C timing can be difficult with out side keys.
I just tried it on a few horns I have. Using the alt F# works if you can use the first joint rather than your finger tip on the key. Some horns don't have the F# in the right place to allow that. It was best for me on my Martin Comm 3, almost impossible on my friend's Buffet 400 that is here for a visit after being damaged.

 

[saxoclese]

I think that flipping from R1 to R3 might be trickier than flipping from R1 to R2. Also, R3 is pretty weak when it has to move all by itself to close that pad. R2 is a more robust finger, hence it produces a more reliable fingering.

You may be right, but my RH3 moved up and down in conjunction with the little finger is quite solid. The thinking behind my "suggested" fingering is that with XXX|OOXEb down for F#, going to the note Eb requires just the addition of RH 1,2. Since I haven't actually tried this with a sax in my hands, I may be "all wet" giving this advice.

 

[swperry1]

Just a good example of why it's good to pratice your chromatic scale/ lines involving both fingerings for F<>F# and B<>C. Going F>F#>Eb fluently is pretty important when you're playing in Eb minor for example.

 

[Alain Gen]

You may be right, but my RH3 moved up and down in conjunction with the little finger is quite solid. The thinking behind my "suggested" fingering is that with XXX|OOXEb down for F#, going to the note Eb requires just the addition of RH 1,2. Since I haven't actually tried this with a sax in my hands, I may be "all wet" giving this advice.

Just trying with my fingers on a table, with your proposition the synchronisation of RH fingers 1 and 2 in the F#-Eb transition is tricky. Borrowing from you idea, the fingering XXX/OXX Eb for F# is the one which allows the fastest F-F#-Eb. But you still need to verify that F# with this fingering doesn't sound too shaded.

 

[saxoclese]

Just trying with my fingers on a table, with your proposition the synchronisation of RH fingers 1 and 2 in the F#-Eb transition is tricky. Borrowing from you idea, the fingering XXX/OXX Eb for F# is the one which allows the fastest F-F#-Eb. But you still need to verify that F# with this fingering doesn't sound too shaded.

Some would disagree, but on trills and fast passages I find the "timbre" of a fingering to be less important than if the note were held. Many trill fingerings sacrifice quality for speed which is why they are called "trill fingerings".

 

[Geolm]

Just a good example of why it's good to pratice your chromatic scale/ lines involving both fingerings for F<>F# and B<>C. Going F>F#>Eb fluently is pretty important when you're playing in Eb minor for example.

Totally agree on that, I should also use "normal" fingering for F# when doing chromatic scale (for some unknown reason I already alternate between regular and side C when doing scales).

Thank you all for your answers and like I said I do use the regular F# now for F - F# - Eb, I wasn't sure if it was the right way to do it but now that I know I will keep on practicing to make it as fluent as possible.

 

[Dave Pollack]

Just use the regular fingerings and get that finger pattern down - always with a metronome and start slowly! After a few thousand times it'll start to get faster.

 

[hakukani]

I just tried f- xxx|xox, f#-xxx|oox to Eb. The f was a bit flat, but you can get away with it if it's quick.

Otherwise, just practice the regular fingerings until you can do it.

 

[saxoclese]

I just tried f- xxx|xox, f#-xxx|oox to Eb. The f was a bit flat, but you can get away with it if it's quick.

Otherwise, just practice the regular fingerings until you can do it.

Did you start out as an oboe player perchance?

 

[hakukani]

Oboe was my second instrument. I came back to sax after high school.

Still, the fingering works.

 

[JL]

Just use the regular fingerings and get that finger pattern down - always with a metronome and start slowly! After a few thousand times it'll start to get faster.

+1. I've never thought of using alternate fingerings for playing that sequence (F Gb Eb). Just practice it until you can do it smoothly.

On a side note, there are some combinations where you can use a 'trick' to make it easier or faster. For ex, if you're playing F G# Eb, you can hold down the G# key the whole time. But I know of no such trick for playing F Gb Eb.

p.s. I just tried using the xxx/oox for F# and it works but seems no faster or smoother than the regular F# fingering when playing that sequence; in fact it's a bit slower because I'm not used to playing F# that way. But even if I got used to it, I don't see any advantage using that fingering.