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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So Im new, I just presented myself in the new arrivals hall of majestic Unicorns. (No seriously I cant remember what the presentation thread was called) In my presentation of myself I told you guys Im working in a musicstore. Well it so happens that during the transaktion from one owner to another there was things left behind that isnt attached to the actual inventory of the store. In other hands they are privately owned by my employer. Now he asked me to try to find some kind of estimate for these things and then we would sell them online and split the profits. Sounds great to me.

The problem Im having is huge. Im not a saxophone player though 2 of these pieces Im trying to get a value on is Berg Larsen BARITONE Mouthpieces. One designated Baritone 120/3 SMS and one Baritone 85/2 SMS, both metal. I dont know the age and I dont know the value.

So how do I determine these things?

  • Value
  • Age
  • Used/Unused

I would appreciate any thoughts you have.
Phreakish
 

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The best way to determine their value is to put them up for sale. If it doesn't sell, you're asking too much. If it sells very fast, you might have asked more.

Condition matters. Post pictures if you want better advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The best way to determine their value is to put them up for sale. If it doesn't sell, you're asking too much. If it sells very fast, you might have asked more.

Condition matters. Post pictures if you want better advice.
Ok so your telling me you put things up for sale and you determine the value by the amount of interest and time of sale? So if your selling your house, your ok with selling it for an amount that might be 35% below true value? Sounds crazy but I can see how this method could work. Place the first ad at about a million and decrease by 20 bucks per week and sooner or later someone will buy it and that is the true value of the item. Might take a few years (Probably 30'000 to 50'000 weeks). Or set a low cost and get a fast sale and assuming you dont get the price right by accident you might loose 90% of true value on your end.

Im not trying to step on your toes or trying to antagonize you, just the first time I heard someone using this method. But it would work Im sure of that.

I dont have the possibility to upload any pictures. The upload manager on this forum say error when I try. I will try to get that fixed and will upload pictures for you. However I dont have any good cameras so Im not sure it will help any. It would also be appreciated if you specified what you want to see on the pictures because the pictures I taken might not actually be what you more educated guys want to see.

Is there any place you know of that refers to Berg Larsen so that I may read or educate myself. I cant really find anything with google.

Also I have allready determined these are used. :)

I thank you and the rest in advance.
Phreakish
 

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<ignoring the rant and moving on...>

I dont have the possibility to upload any pictures. The upload manager on this forum say error when I try. I will try to get that fixed and will upload pictures for you. However I dont have any good cameras so Im not sure it will help any.
Get an account at PhotoBucket, SnapFish, or similar, and link to the host site to display your pictures. There's no point in a guessing game regarding value since we can't see them and you don't know enough to tell us.

Is there any place you know of that refers to Berg Larsen so that I may read or educate myself. I cant really find anything with google.
Try this: http://theowanne.com/knowledge/mouthpiece-museum

G'luck!
 

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I think he is kind of joking with you. Pictures are really needed. Berg made so many pieces over the years and different iterations. The way you posed the question is about as vague and undefined as his solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Actually its not. My question was

So how do I determine these things?

Value
Age
Used/Unused

Now if same question was answered by me according to the value or determination there of when it comes to e.g a guitar I would explain such as this.

The value is a factor of several things. The amount put down into the work of said guitar. Bindings and details. The Hardware and the quality of that hardware. The frets and the ware of this frets. The bow in the neck. The material its built in. etc etc etc. I actually never asked you or anyone else to estimate the value nor give me a price. I asked how to determine. What to consider when it comes to mouthpieces. How do I determine the age of a mouthpiece. If it was a guitar I would go to e.g vintage guitars and look the serial up. I would research the background of that model and the availability of the guitar. Theres many factors and of course I understand it has to do with tear and ware of the piece.

I did then conclude this request with - I would appreciate any thoughts you have.
Now I respect the method used by my new friend of worth equal time. However I still would appreciate the thoughts sourrounding what you guys look for. And especially how to determine age of a metal thing that bares no serials and such. I see this as an educating experience :)

I do appreciate a joke, Im just not used to the abrupt and snarky ones comming at me just as I joined a forum. And I might have overreacted a bit. I do that quite often. My apologies.

Now the link to the museum was very helpful. Quite interesting. Thank you.

Have a nice evening
Phreakish
 

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+1 for Sigmund451.
Berg Larsen mouthpieces are maybe the most difficult to put a value on. Early ones can be identified by a number of small things (Offset or not M/SMS, shape of the table, shape of the baffle, profile of the beak, and so on). Early ones have a higher chance of being good players than later ones, but no guarantee. Therefore, post some pictures if you want comments. (Pics should show at least the stamping on the shank, the tip, the looks of the baffle and chamber etc.) An unused mouthpiece may indicate that it was not played because it sucks. A well used mouthpiece may indicate the opposite, but may also indicate wear and tear.
Try search ebay for completed listings of Berg Larsen baritone. That may give you a hint, and some pictures to compare with. Good luck.
 

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Selmer Balanced Action Tenor Saxophone, Powell Flute
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Let me just say that Valuing a mouthpiece is always tricky. Even experts will place different values on a piece, and then they never sell for what they are actually worth.

Value is based upon many aspects.

1) Brand
2) Rarity
2) Condition - Original facing? Cosmetic condition?
3) Accessories - does it have the original box, cap and lig?
4) Demand - this is often a driving factor as some pieces will get hot and sell for A LOT and then a month later it dives down.

That's about it...although I would highly highly recommend getting pics up and asking for an evaluation on here. You'll get many opinions, but there will be an average consensus that should give you a good ball park.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks guys. This was a bit better for me since I have no clue what Im doing :)

I have looked at Ebay. I couldnt find the ones I have. However that doesnt mean much. As I said. I dont need to have a fixed price determined since I also know that things in the states usually sell for much less then in Sweden and the otherway around. It always comes down to demand in location. I just need a nudge into your world on how to go about determining the value and age. (Im more interested in the age personally) I will try my best this weekend to get some more detailed pictures. The ones I took is not up to par. Im not looking to make a killing on this. I just dont want to give away a 300 buck piece for 50 bucks when the actual mouthpiece belongs to someone else, my employer. I would feel like a thief. If the piece is worth actual not estimated 10 bucks and I make 7-8 bucks thats good enough for me.

Now you guys will have to wait intill I get a good camera in my hand to see the actual needed (as nicely dictated by Peterogping, stamping on the shank, the tip, the looks of the baffle and chamber etc. ) pictures but heres a preview of the two without detailing.







And of course the otherone. I know theres no information in these pictures. I just posting them because of the popular demand for pictures ;)







Now I have some new words to look up, study and learn. Since Im a complete novis you guys will have to have patience. (Wonder if you spell patience like that)

Anyways, I thank everyone for the help so far and the help later.
Phreakish
 

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Can you show the sizing stamp? Also, remove the cap and show an overhead view of the bite plate and a straight above shot looking inside the window. In general, the 85/2 is pretty closed for a bari mouthpiece and wouldn't be sought after as much as one more open. The 120/3 is a more intriguing piece.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
:baby:Ha! Thanks now I feel stupid. First of all I dont get what you mean. Second. The damn box lie to me. Box say 120/3 the actual stamp say 100/2 SMS. Which I know I saw on Ebay somewhere. Well that was mindblowing. Shame on me for just making sure one of the pieces was what they said they were. I kinda skipped the 120/3 or should I say 100/2. I just assumed the box would be correct. Ok so lets start over we are now looking at a 100/2 and a 85/2. Ok let me have it :) I did one hell of a rookie mistake so Im giving everyone 1 punch each. :baby:



So that taught me a lesson. Ok I tried taking a picture down the throath of the belly but it was horrible and fuzzy. Ill see what I can do later on. I have 10 min. Then my wonderful wife will pick me up and Im free for 4 whole days woohoo.



Thanks again guys. So far I learnt alot.
Phreakish
 

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Thanks again guys. So far I learnt alot.
Phreakish
No, thank YOU. It's always fun to remember how it was when we, too, were pups - although I NEVER remember doing something THAT foolish. :twisted: :bluewink:

FWIW, another shot worth learning to take in good focus, is the very tip where the sides ("rails") meet the end of the mouthpiece ("tip rail").

Here're some examples of good photos. http://www.mojomouthpiecework.com/Photos/tabid/59/Default.aspx

Cheers!
 

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There are no tooth marks on the bite plates, right? That would tell you if they've been used or not. As the boxes may not even be the right ones, they're not going to tell you the exact age for those that follow such marketing history. But they don't appear to be of the hallowed "vintage" variety, and that's really all that matters. So then it comes down to whether or not someone wants the exact parameter of size, facing and baffle as represented by the numbers. Those could fall into a range of $100-$200; with the 85/2 coming closer to the $100 and the 100/2 coming closer to the $200. Researching e-bay completed sales might help as well.
 

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Selmer Balanced Action Tenor Saxophone, Powell Flute
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That one (100/2) is not super old. Possibly 70's but that would be the earliest. More likely the 80's or so.

The other one looks older. Can we see the same shots of that one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 

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One place I go to get the value of something is to go on ebay.

Hit advanced search.

list the details of your item.

Check the box for completed listings

When they come up, check out the stuff in red - it did not sell - price too high perhaps.

Check out the stuff in green - it sold - these can help provide a market price on ebay.

Value for retail maybe not so much, I do not know.

But at least you may get a record of a number of real sales of real items relatively current to when you want to put a price on your item.
 

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That one (100/2) is not super old. Possibly 70's but that would be the earliest. More likely the 80's or so.

The other one looks older. Can we see the same shots of that one?
Yeah, better shots of the 85/2 might show an offset SMS, which would appeal more to some buyers and bring up the value a bit. Though it's still a rather closed tip opening for bari.
 

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85 tip for a Berg bari is tiny.
And legend has it they actually measure smaller in reality.
Also being stainless steel a reface is unlikely, so there wouldn't be too many buyers for that one.
I'd put the 100 facing at about $150-170 tops, but you might get lucky.
The offset pieces with denim milling marks on the table are often nice players in tips from 100 upwards and I sold a 110 recently on fleabay for $235 but it took a couple of listings to go.
The slant signature duckbills from the forties are the ones that sometimes reach bigger prices.
Personally I have never found a berg with arced machine marks that played nicely, but I'm sure some must.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok I took some pictures with the wifes phone. Just to get some up. Dont have a better camera at the moment so heres and update on the 85/2. Dont mind the text, its just there so I know what Im looking at.

So its marked Berg Larsen, London England and also have a REG design nr stamped which is 851427/8. Besides that its also stamped B on what I think is called the ligature right?





















Maybe these sheds some light onto what I have.

For now, another thanks.
Phreakish
 

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That's an offset SMS 85/2 Bari piece with Denim marks on the table. Probably from the 50's.

That particular vintage is generally the most sought after Berg Larsen, BUT being a small tip it will not make it as popular. Still a great piece though!

Not 100% on the price because it is an .085 tip, but I would venture a guess to say about $250.

If it were a .110 or .120 you could probably get $400 -$500.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well thats interesting. So how do I determine if its an offset SMS? And also why is the offset more interesting. The former owner of this piece was a player himself and opened his musicstore sometime in the 50's, he then sold it to the new owner in 2009. These two mouthpieces plus some otherthings might come from his own personal belongings.

Ill try to get up some more of the 100/2 SMS aswell soon.
Thanks
 
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