[Dmell]

I just bought this Buescher True Tone with the serial number 153509 Low Pitch , which would put it around 1924 according to a chart that I've seen posted elsewhere.
From what I've read , the front F key didn't appear until the late '20s. So how come I have that front F? It's great that I've got it and I'm not complaining , but it's not supposed to be there by all accounts. It also has that extra little key which I believe is the Eb trill key on the RH.
It also has that mother-of-pearl C* button key typical of those early years.The lacquer is not in great shape but obviously is has a sort of yellow /rose color where otherwise the dark original metal is showing. It obviously needs a relacquering .So my 2Qs are :
Is this a special made-to-order model?
Was this sax by any chance gold plated?
Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Brooklynsax]

I believe that the front F was an option at that point in time.

 

[bruce bailey]

What is a C* key? Do you mean G#? The front F as an option has been discussed before and appears to have been optional. Can't tell if it was gold plated unless we have a photo.

 

[Dave Dolson]

The small "touch" on the right-hand side is a G# trill. It probably also has the forked Eb mechanism (R1 and R3) that will open a little vent on the back unless that is closed, which is typical.

My silver TT alto is #1534XX, pretty close to yours. DAVE

 

[JL]

The lacquer is not in great shape but obviously is has a sort of yellow /rose color where otherwise the dark original metal is showing. It obviously needs a relacquering .So my 2Qs are :
Is this a special made-to-order model?
Was this sax by any chance gold plated?.

Regarding the finish, these horns were issued as bare brass, silver plate, or gold plate when new. If it has a lacquer finish, that would have been applied later on. If that's the case, I wouldn't mess with it, especially when you say the lac is in great shape. I don't know what you mean about the "yellow/rose color where otherwise the dark original metal is showing." Then you ask if it might be gold plated. It very well might be gold plated and you're seeing some silver tarnish showing through(??). One thing you can do is look for any area of wear on the finish and see if there is silver showing (it might be dark grey or black due to tarnish) where the gold plate is worn off. A gold-plated horn will have silver plating under the gold. Gold plate won't stick to brass.

If it is gold plated, it can be polished up to look like new. Gold plated horns have a bit higher value also.

p.s. Post some photos and maybe we can get a better idea.

 

[Dmell]

Thanks for the response.
Yes , of course I DID mean to say the G# / Ab button not C#. Plus the forked Eb little button on the RH.
Dave... You say you have one similar to mine. Do you use the that Eb button or did you have it shut down ?

Thanks for that info SOTW columnist.... I wrote that the lacquer is NOT in good shape but I notice an off -yellow color such as I described on portions of the sax. I took a couple of shots but unfortunately the colors as I see them don't show up well on the photos, although they're otherwise quite clear. I'll try again.
Upon closer inspection after your post, I did notice slivers of what looks like silver.
The unlacquered areas have a deep brown color which at first glance looks like rust but isn't. It looks like it wasn't stored in an environmentally favorable area but amazingly , it doesn't have a single dent on the entire horn. I just hope it plays as sweet as they say it does when I overhaul it.

 

[Dmell]

Thanks for that info...... I took a closer look at it , please see my response.

 

[Dave Dolson]

My forked Eb is closed - it doesn't work and was done like that when it was overhauled. Frankly, I don't recall if it worked before the overhaul - I never use that fingering and all of my vintage saxophones with that feature are fixed so it doesn't work. Lots of past discussions about the propriety of doing this. Suffice to say, it doesn't matter to me and if I ever gave up those horns, the feature can be easily restored.

I had the horn overhauled after I bought it and it is gorgeous - plays good, too. But the forked Eb is not the same as the little button to the right of the right-hand stack. That button will allow you to trill a G# and has nothing to do with sounding Eb. The forked Eb is a separate mechanism and is played with R1 and R3 down, raising the middle finger (R2 . . . NOT the salute!!!).

If you see silver under the finish, I'm guessing yours is gold-plate. When the horn is completely apart, it might be a good idea to have it cleaned with whatever method techs use to clean and restore fine finishes. Mine was AWFUL when I got it, but now it is stunning. DAVE

 

[Dmell]

My forked Eb is closed - it doesn't work and was done like that when it was overhauled. Frankly, I don't recall if it worked before the overhaul - I never use that fingering and all of my vintage saxophones with that feature are fixed so it doesn't work. Lots of past discussions about the propriety of doing this. Suffice to say, it doesn't matter to me and if I ever gave up those horns, the feature can be easily restored.

I had the horn overhauled after I bought it and it is gorgeous - plays good, too. But the forked Eb is not the same as the little button to the right of the right-hand stack. That button will allow you to trill a G# and has nothing to do with sounding Eb. The forked Eb is a separate mechanism and is played with R1 and R3 down, raising the middle finger (R2 . . . NOT the salute!!!).

If you see silver under the finish, I'm guessing yours is gold-plate. When the horn is completely apart, it might be a good idea to have it cleaned with whatever method techs use to clean and restore fine finishes. Mine was AWFUL when I got it, but now it is stunning. DAVE

Well Dave , you set me straight. You see , I have a Buescher Aristocrat circa 1963 which I love. Then when I read so much about the True Tone , I decided to get one. So I read up on its trill G# key and the forked Eb. I was a bit confused and thought that the G# little key on the RH stack was an alternate Eb and now I know the difference. However , I did read about the pros and cons of keeping the Eb , but I'll have the tech close it. You got me convinced. I now hope that mine ,which is really awful looking , will shine like yours.

 

[JL]

.... I wrote that the lacquer is NOT in good shape but I notice an off -yellow color such as I described on portions of the sax. I took a couple of shots but unfortunately the colors as I see them don't show up well on the photos, although they're otherwise quite clear. I'll try again.
Upon closer inspection after your post, I did notice slivers of what looks like silver..

Sorry, I misread that part of your OP.

If it is gold plated, it would be strange to have any lacquer on the horn (I've never heard of anyone lacquering over gold plate, but I guess it's possible). Maybe what you're seeing is dirt, or various degrees of tarnish on the underlying silver or even the gold (which I think can tarnish, but very slowly). In any case, if you see silver in the worn spots, it's likely gold plated and will clean up and polish like new.

Send some photos; we might be able to see more than you think. Especially take pics of the areas where you think you see silver.

 

[bruce bailey]

If the gold area is also satin, then it is probably GP and the GP horns usually have more engraving. Worn lacquer = brass (yellow or reddish).....Worn gold plate = silver underneath then brass under that. Photos....

 

[Dmell]

Here are photos of the sax. The copperish hue probably doesn't show up very well since I took them with flash.

 

[JL]

Thanks for the photos. Unfortunately I don't think it's gold plate, based on those pics. But I wouldn't worry too much about the finish. The important think is playing condition. How's it play?

 

[Dmell]

Thanks for the photos. Unfortunately I don't think it's gold plate, based on those pics. But I wouldn't worry too much about the finish. The important think is playing condition. How's it play?

Other than getting a few notes ,it's pretty much unplayable . It needs some serious rehab. Thanks

 

[bruce bailey]

It is an old lacquer finish. Don't spend too much on it. With new pads it will only be about a $400 horn.

 

[JL]

It is an old lacquer finish. Don't spend too much on it. With new pads it will only be about a $400 horn.

It's a real conundrum, because if you want the horn to play well, you have to spend enough to get it playing well. And that could cost more than the horn is worth. But that really only matters if you are planning on selling the horn. If you keep it and play it, then who cares what it's worth on the open market? These really are great players with a wonderful tone, so you have to decide on that basis, not market value, imo.... as a player.

FWIW, I've owned a TT alto since high school (a LOOONG time), I had it overhauled at one point, and it plays fantastic. It definitely, for absolute certain, sounds much better than a top line Yamaha Custom alto I once owned, and a horn like that will cost 3 times as much as a TT including a complete overhaul!

 

[Sax Magic]

I had a 1929 or 1930 TrueTone in satin silver plate that looked absolutely Brand New after I had it restored, repadded, and adjusted. Wonderful tone, good intonation (if you learn to play with a relaxed embouchure, otherwise they will go sharp in the upper register), and great response. I chose to leave the Forked Eb open and working, but then I liked having that option when going from Low C to low Eb or vice versa; works fine in keys of C minor and C blues, and some modal things. I liked it, but you must get accustomed to using it, and then keep an eye on its adjustment, as can throw off response in the lower stack if not kept in adjustment.
I sold mine when I retired and started clearing out my stable of backups. I miss it, nearly as much as the Martin Comm 1 alto that I sold as well.
Enjoy your TrueTone after its repad, and don't even waste any $$$ with having it relacquered; just get it in superb playing shape and enjoy! After you have a good 6 months of playing it exclusively, then go back to your Aristocrat for a few days and see which one you really love, or just what differences you experience.
Sax Magic

 

[maddenma]

It's a real conundrum, because if you want the horn to play well, you have to spend enough to get it playing well. And that could cost more than the horn is worth. But that really only matters if you are planning on selling the horn. If you keep it and play it, then who cares what it's worth on the open market? These really are great players with a wonderful tone, so you have to decide on that basis, not market value, imo.... as a player.

You might want to wait and see if you can come up with a later TT with a "roller G#" (200,xxx or so). You'll be a lot happier with the keywork than the series II you have currently. There are a zillion of them out there, and if you're going to dump money into this horn you won't recover -- and I'm a poster child for such things -- then at least wait for one that's got the latest keywork you can find. You may also actually come up with one in silver (the most popular finish at the time) or even one in GP.

 

[JL]

After you have a good 6 months of playing it exclusively, then go back to your Aristocrat for a few days and see which one you really love, or just what differences you experience.
Sax Magic

The OP has an Aristocrat? I missed that somehow.

I think what maddenma says in his post above makes a lot of sense. Everyone is different, but if I was looking for a good alto, I'd go for a pristine late TT from someone like Gayle at vintagesax or any reputable dealer that would sell me a horn in perfect playing condition.

 

[Rackety Sax]

I just bought this Buescher True Tone with the serial number 153509 Low Pitch , which would put it around 1924 according to a chart that I've seen posted elsewhere.
From what I've read , the front F key didn't appear until the late '20s. So how come I have that front F? It's great that I've got it and I'm not complaining , but it's not supposed to be there by all accounts. It also has that extra little key which I believe is the Eb trill key on the RH.
It also has that mother-of-pearl C* button key typical of those early years.The lacquer is not in great shape but obviously is has a sort of yellow /rose color where otherwise the dark original metal is showing. It obviously needs a relacquering .So my 2Qs are :
Is this a special made-to-order model?
Was this sax by any chance gold plated?
Thanks in advance for your input.

I have a 157k Buescher C-mel that has an original front F key on it.