[maestroelite]

Ok, here's my situation. I never found classical playing to be very interesting in high school and focused mainly on my jazz playing. Improv and producing a good tone and such. Now, I'm at college and I'm playing more serious classical repertoire. The problem is, no matter what horn or mouthpiece or reed I use, I put air in and out comes my sound for jazz, funk and such. The closest I get is an S80 C* and Van Doren classic reed on my alto, and trying to get a dark, even tone on tenor is proving to be really difficult for me. I'm getting very little difference between my Powell Quantum and Van Doren V5(with Javas and Blue box respectively). Obviously the Quantum is a bit brighter, but I still sound like me on the V5.

So basically, my question is, how do you go about making a different tone than is what is engrained in your head? Especially with tenor, I'm not sure where to start with recordings. I know our library has all kinds of classical recordings, I'm guessing that would be a good start. Is there anything in particular that should be different? I'm having trouble keeping an even tone between the registers of the instrument.. I don't feel like I'm changing my embouchere, so I'm not sure what is causing this. Is this somewhat from how I voice each note in my throat? Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[JL]

I'm getting very little difference between my Powell Quantum and Van Doren V5(with Javas and Blue box respectively). Obviously the Quantum is a bit brighter, but I still sound like me on the V5..

What is a "Powell Quantum?" I'm not familiar with the Van Doren V5, either, but the Quantum mpc I have played is a Runyon Quantum and it would be way too bright and harsh for classical music, imo. Maybe you are talking about something entirely different. In terms of equipment, the mpc is probably the important thing. I don't play classical so can't help you much. But regarding what you say about consistency between the registers and tone quality on tenor, I'm wondering what horn are you playing?

 

[Martinman]

I find that I have to go into a completely different mindset when I play classical. Just try to find some Rousseau stuff in the library, get the music for the songs and play along, just like you would for jazz.

This is what Vernon told me to do.

Where did you end up going?

 

[wmclean]

Typically when people talk about classical mpcs they talk about Rascher or Caravans like you can find at www.classicsax.com

wW

 

[LampLight]

Listen and Learn

My teacher suggests listening to the people you want to sound like. He says that helps over time. If there are classical players you admire, perhaps you could listen to them. If not, perhaps that's why you're having so much trouble. -- Good luck.

 

[crescent]

I second the recommendation of Rascher or Caravan.

I went through two years of music school trying to dampen the brightness of the S80 mouthpiece with harder and harder Vandorens. Now, 30 years later I find that I can get the classical sound MUCH more easily using a vintage large chamber mouthpiece.

I like the very old no name Riffaults and the old style Buescher. But these can be hard to find and you certainly won't find them on eBay with a trial period.

I also hear great things about Ron Caravan's tenor mouthpiece from Antoine Roney. Antoine's a jazz player who like a dark tone. I think it's certainly worth a try.

 

[Rackety Sax]

Typically when people talk about classical mpcs they talk about Rascher or Caravans like you can find at www.classicsax.com

I disagree. Typically, they are talking about an S80, Rousseau classical, Vandoren Optimum, maybe a Teal. Occasionally they are talking about a Rascher, Caravan or other large-chambered mouthpiece. Unless you live in Hattiesburg.

 

[Rackety Sax]

...So basically, my question is, how do you go about making a different tone than is what is engrained in your head? Especially with tenor, I'm not sure where to start with recordings. I know our library has all kinds of classical recordings, I'm guessing that would be a good start. Is there anything in particular that should be different? I'm having trouble keeping an even tone between the registers of the instrument.. I don't feel like I'm changing my embouchere, so I'm not sure what is causing this. Is this somewhat from how I voice each note in my throat? Any ideas would be appreciated. ...

Well you've nailed the issue right there - you need to get something else in your head for starters. Nowadays you can find some recordings of classical tenor saxophonists, if nothing else in all of the sax quartet recordings out there. That will be the guide for selecting equipment and producing the tone you want.

 

[drakesaxprof]

I strongly urge that you purchase and listen to James Houlik's American Saxophone recording, available here at emusic.com

Concept is number one, and this recording should help to shape that. As for equipment, I've had success on tenor with Vandoren Optimum TL4, Selmer S-80 C** or D, Selmer Soloist and Soloist-Style (scroll-shank) C** or D, Morgan 3C, among others. Take sufficient mouthpiece (teeth at the reed to facing breakpoint) so that the sound is resonant and even, without the jazz subtone that results from too little mouthpiece. Don't change your jaw or embouchure while playing through the registers--the only change should be internal, adjusting voicing (tongue arch) to adjust airspeed (higher/faster in the upper register, lower/slower in the low register). Finally, listen to some great cellists--Pablo Casals, Mstislav Rostropovich, Yo-Yo Ma, Janos Starker, etc., as the tonal concept in the cello range translates beautifully to classical tenor, as does that of great vocalists. The recently-departed Pavarotti comes to mind.

 

[HOUSTON NONET]

Buy a Keilwerth nickel-silver sax--- most even sounding horn ever made

 

[Martinman]

Buy a Keilwerth nickel-silver sax--- most even sounding horn ever made

I don't think a Keilwerth is going to help him much with a classical tone...

 

[drakesaxprof]

I don't think a Keilwerth is going to help him much with a classical tone...

I tend to agree that the horn itself would be a very distant fourth in importance, after establishing an appropriate tonal concept, learning to control embouchure and airstream, and a reasonable setup of mpc, reed, and ligature. Having dealt with those three areas, I am equally comfortable producing a classical tenor tone on my Serie II, Mk VI, Nickel Silver SX90R, or even my early 60's H.A. Selmer/Bundy. My Super 20 would be a bit more challenging in the classical arena.

 

[Martinman]

I tend to agree that the horn itself would be a very distant fourth in importance, after establishing an appropriate tonal concept, learning to control embouchure and airstream, and a reasonable setup of mpc, reed, and ligature. Having dealt with those three areas, I am equally comfortable producing a classical tenor tone on my Serie II, Mk VI, Nickel Silver SX90R, or even my early 60's H.A. Selmer/Bundy. My Super 20 would be a bit more challenging in the classical arena.

My teacher thought my best classical tone was on my Martin tenor (nice and dark), even though I have a Selmer II alto and he was a Rousseau student.

 

[maestroelite]

In reply to the tenor mouthpiece.. yes it is a Runyon, it was refaced by Brian Powell. I realize that this is a jazz mouthpiece, and I use it as such. The V5 was the main/only modern mouthpiece Van Doren made before the Optimum. I'm not really interested in changing equipment, its me. I already have to buy a new clarinet mouthpiece because my tip got deformed and I may need to buy a classical bari piece for quartet playing, although my HR Link will hopefully do.

Any ideas for specific recordings I should listen to, especially featuring the tenor voice?

 

[awholley]

Houlik.

There are a usually a couple of cuts at his web site. http://www.jameshoulik.com