[jazzyphili]

I usually tune my Conn 6m by pushing in or pulling out the mouthpiece. But recently I've decided to push the mouthpiece all the way in and tune the horn with the microtuner.

But then I've realised no matter how I tune using the microtuner, it still plays very sharp.

A full rebuild is done on the horn before I received it [which is about 1 month ago] and the microtuner is in working condition. it moves in and out and I do hear the tone improves as the neck extend but it simply doesn't play in tune even when the microtuner is nearly detached from the neck.

[though I have no problem playing in tune if I use the push in/ pull out method to tune the horn]

I checked with a few people and they all suggested me to use a large chamber mouthpiece to solve the problem.

[and in case it helps to identify the problem I'm using a Meyer 6m medium chamber with Rico Jazz select 3m. I also tried using a JJ classic 8 and Selmer metal classic E but I still play very sharp when push all the way in]

However I suspect it might have to do with my embouchure. I do have a tendency to bite really hard on my lower lips and I often leave some teeth marks on my lips after 1 or 2 hrs of playing.

Can anyone help me on this?

 

[JL]

[though I have no problem playing in tune if I use the push in/ pull out method to tune the horn]

I checked with a few people and they all suggested me to use a large chamber mouthpiece to solve the problem.

Except you don't really have a problem. Just pull the mpc out a bit on the cork to where it plays in tune. If I pushed the mpc all the way up the cork on any of my horns, they would all play too sharp, no matter what I did with the embouchure.

There is an optimum place, give or take, on the cork for any given mpc. Once you have the mpc in that spot, I suppose you could make a 'micro-adjustment' with the microtuner. But it's not meant to correct the intonation when the mpc is shoved way too far up on the neck.

 

[jazzyphili]

O I always thought I am supposed to push the mouthpiece all the way in to use the microtuner?

 

[Pete Thomas]

O I always thought I am supposed to push the mouthpiece all the way in to use the microtuner?

No, you are supposed to have the mouthpiece at the best place for tuning. If you find you tune to one note and another part of the horn is out of tune, it could mean there is a mouthpiece mismatch, or it could mean something with your embouchure.

I tend to tune a bit sharp, and then relax down when I'm playing.

 

[JL]

O I always thought I am supposed to push the mouthpiece all the way in to use the microtuner?

I'll let someone who has a Conn with microtuner answer that, but it doesn't make sense to me. I would think you'd start with the mpc on the cork as close to in tune as possible, then maybe adjust the microtuner from there (put the microtuner in a 'neutral position' to start with?). I doubt you really need to mess with the microtuner at all. If those things were necessary, most saxes would have them.

Ultimately of course you tune by 'voicing,' using your ear. But don't set it up for failure by pushing the mpc too far (or not far enough) on the cork.

 

[click]

I like the microtuner. You do not have to wiggle the mouthpiece for fine tuning, you just screw the tuner in or out, which lengthens or shortens the neck. The position of the mpc on the cork does not change the operation of the tuner. They are not necessary, but are a nice feature.

 

[ThreeSixTwoFive]

jazzyphili:

You are thinking right about the intended use of the microtuner. It was designed for the mouthpiece to be pushed all the way in. Why it doesn't work with your modern mouthpiece is simply that the internal volume and geometry of the modern piece is different from the vintage mouthpiece.

I suggest you not make yourself crazy by trying to be completely authentic. If you need to pullout, go ahead and pull out a bit. If you find you can play looser (and flatter) push in a little bit as you get used to the horn and a looser embouchure. Don't worry too much about theory. Just find what works.

If it sounds good, it's good!

 

[jazzyphili]

Thanks guys.

It's good to know its not my embouchure problem.

 

[Pete Thomas]

It's good to know its not my embouchure problem.

Except that if it's true as ThreeSixTwoFive says that the microtuner is designed for the mouthpiece to be all the way in, and there is no mouthpiece mismatch, then relaxing your embouchure may improve your sound. Just speculating here.

 

[click]

jazzyphili:

... It was designed for the mouthpiece to be pushed all the way in. ...

I do not think this statement is correct. The position of the mpc on the cork has nothing to do with the way the microtuner works. I have one in my hands now, and turning the thing moves the neck, making it longer or shorter. It does not push anything up or down the cork. Even if the mpc was way out on the tip of the cork, turning the tuner would still make the neck longer or shorter.

 

[jazzyphili]

I do not think this statement is correct.

I don't really know the answer but it seems like many people on the forum believes the mpc should be push all the way in.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?156930-Advice-please-space-between-the-microtuner-and-the-mouth-piece.

Well I guess I might try to find a cheap vintage mouthpiece and see if it solves my concern.

Once again thank you everyone!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Well I guess I might try to find a cheap vintage mouthpiece and see if it solves my concern.
!

Something like this might be helpful as a benchmark

 

[JL]

Well I guess I might try to find a cheap vintage mouthpiece and see if it solves my concern.

I don't understand why you don't simply pull the mpc out a couple of mm on the cork. You are driving yourself crazy over nothing. Are you happy with the mpc you're using now? If so, I definitely wouldn't change the mpc to try and 'solve' this non-problem. Just my opinion, but I think I'm right, lol!

OTOH, if you'd prefer a larger chamber mpc, that's a different thing...whether or not it solves the 'problem.'

 

[jazzyphili]

I don't understand why you don't simply pull the mpc out a couple of mm on the cork.'

Haha... I totally get your point.

I'm very happy with the Meyer I'm using now. I just want to see if a vintage mouthpiece will make a big difference or not.

I saw the post that Pete Thomas linked on this thread and thought "well its not that expensive and I might just give it a try".

I guess I didn't explain myself very clear on the previous post. Sorry for the confusion.