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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just checking out prices online and was shocked to see how much these horns go for. I know they're decent horns but still they're made in Taiwan.

So now the prices of P. Mauriat horns are comparable to those of Yamaha and Yanagisawa horns or more. The way I think of horns like the Mauriat is that they're glorified Kessler Custom saxophones or other decent store-branded saxophones. What is going on here?
 

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well, I don't know---I played one of the 76R tenors yesterday, and I would say it is easily the best playing Asian made horn I have played, and I felt the sound was far beyond a yamaha or yanagisawa of the same level. Maybe they are worth it...?
 

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Just forget about its origin... They are nice playing horns after all.

Kenny.
 

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I've two P.Mauriats: a System 76 and the so-called Black Pearl. Both are quite fine instruments. P.Mauriat, whether one disagrees with whatever marketing they want to disagree with, is showing that they are paying attention to quality and implementation and making a superb effort to get details right. The CEO is a sax nut (ever hear of one of those?) who plays daily. We ought to applaud their efforts. I have by buying a couple of their horns.

Now, that said, my long-experienced technician has seen and worked on both of my Mauriats as well as completely rebuilt my Selmer SBA. He grumbles about makers who don't get details right and my tech puts Mauriat on the cross for some criticism, but then we have all heard lots of gripes about Selmer too. How much does one pay for a new Selmer?

All in all, I know I could not start up a manufacturing operation and come close to what Mauriat is making, and so far neither has Phil Barone and friend, who tried to put as fine an instrument in our hands at price points that were never nailed down. Sure one can buy a (fill in the blank) vintage horn and it can be very very good, but that's not the issue or the question.

Mauriat is making very good instruments.
 

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SaxyAcoustician said:
I was just checking out prices online and was shocked to see how much these horns go for. I know they're decent horns but still they're made in Taiwan.
This is coming from a guy who owns 3 Selmers currently...
I checked the prices for the current crop of Selmer Paris saxes, and I am shocked to see how much these horns go for...I know they're decent horns but they are still made in France.

Come on people...get over yourselves! All this prejudice about stuff being made in Asia seems to me like an attempt to discriminate. We have hashed this out on SOTW previously. My thoughts remain firm. If the only sax you consider genuine is the Selmer Paris, then you're missing a whole other dimension of music. :x
 

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I demoed a few P Mauriat horns not too long ago (for the heck of it, I don't need ANY more horns!) and was very impressed with them, especially the 76 model. They did jump in price quite a bit since they were first released, but hasn't everything?
 

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P Mauriat

SaxyAcoustician said:
I was just checking out prices online and was shocked to see how much these horns go for. I know they're decent horns but still they're made in Taiwan.

So now the prices of P. Mauriat horns are comparable to those of Yamaha and Yanagisawa horns or more. The way I think of horns like the Mauriat is that they're glorified Kessler Custom saxophones or other decent store-branded saxophones. What is going on here?
I tried all of their horns last year, but not the new 76 models. I agree that they are one of the best intermediate horns availailable, but also that they are moving too fast on pricing. I was shopping for a soprano and although they were too bright for my taste, they were built as well as a new Selmer that Tim had in stock. Not up to a Yani or a JK however.

The tenor ( Model 66R I think), that was getting most of buzz, did not distinguish itself. I felt the alto was further up the intermediate range and the 300DK bari would give any horn a run for it's money. If they have done to the other horns what the did to the bari? Look out big four!
 

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There is nothing intermediate about any of those models listed above. The only intermediate model they make is the 202 campus model. The rest of the P. Mauriat line is as professional of a horn as any other.
 

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SaxyAcoustician said:
I was just checking out prices online and was shocked to see how much these horns go for. I know they're decent horns but still they're made in Taiwan.
Whoa, thats some adolescent thinking....
 

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As I remember, Antigua did the same thing with its new sopranos a few years ago--introduced them at a bargain price, then raised prices significantly when the initial buzz was favorable. That used to be called a "low introductory price". It's a reasonable way to introduce a good, but unknown, product to the market.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I never said Mauriats were bad horns. I think that a product line's pricing should be commensurate with the company's reputation in that product space. Selmer, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Keilwerth...these companies have been around for ages and have proven their standings over time. Resale value is the truest indicator of a product's worth.

So would it be OK for new Chinese auto companies to sell their cars here in the U.S. for >$30k? Sure, the cars will get you from point A to point B but would you purchase it if you could get a Honda or Toyota for less money?

A Mauriat tenor for >$3k? Altos for >$2.5k? Are you kidding? I wouldn't disagree with prices that are more along the lines of Jupiter and Cannonball.
 

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SaxyAcoustician said:
I never said Mauriats were bad horns. I think that a product line's pricing should be commensurate with the company's reputation in that product space. Selmer, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Keilwerth...these companies have been around for ages and have proven their standings over time. Resale value is the truest indicator of a product's worth.

So would it be OK for new Chinese auto companies to sell their cars here in the U.S. for >$30k? Sure, the cars will get you from point A to point B but would you purchase it if you could get a Honda or Toyota for less money?

A Mauriat tenor for >$3k? Altos for >$2.5k? Are you kidding? I wouldn't disagree with prices that are more along the lines of Jupiter and Cannonball.
For me the question isn't "is it OK for them to charge that much" -- they can charge a zillion bucks for all I care. The question is: will anyone buy the item at the asking price? I wouldn't buy a car from any country at a high price if it were unproven -- but that's not to say that nobody would. And who knows, it might turn out to be just the right thing.
 

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Saxy, I agree with your logic.

"I think that a product line's pricing should be commensurate with the company's reputation in that product space. Selmer, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Keilwerth...these companies have been around for ages and have proven their standings over time. Resale value is the truest indicator of a product's worth.

So would it be OK for new Chinese auto companies to sell their cars here in the U.S. for >$30k? Sure, the cars will get you from point A to point B but would you purchase it if you could get a Honda or Toyota for less money?"

I think Mauriat used the SHE (The SOTW Hype Effect) and most people didn't think in the same manner as you.

Had they, Mauriat wouldn't be asking the prices they are asking- and getting them.

I think they are fine horns indeed...but they haven't stood the test of time..and the one I had was certainly not going to get the rave reviews I have seen lately. Honestly I much preferred the Cannonball Stone Series to the PM. However, I must say that I thought both had their own good points.

I would say they are horns of similar quality of manufacture, and therefore, should be selling for similar prices retail.
 

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Randall said:
Saxy, I agree with your logic.

"I think that a product line's pricing should be commensurate with the company's reputation in that product space. Selmer, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Keilwerth...these companies have been around for ages and have proven their standings over time. Resale value is the truest indicator of a product's worth.

So would it be OK for new Chinese auto companies to sell their cars here in the U.S. for >$30k? Sure, the cars will get you from point A to point B but would you purchase it if you could get a Honda or Toyota for less money?"

I think Mauriat used the SHE (The SOTW Hype Effect) and most people didn't think in the same manner as you.

Had they, Mauriat wouldn't be asking the prices they are asking- and getting them.

I think they are fine horns indeed...but they haven't stood the test of time..and the one I had was certainly not going to get the rave reviews I have seen lately. Honestly I much preferred the Cannonball Stone Series to the PM. However, I must say that I thought both had their own good points.

I would say they are horns of similar quality of manufacture, and therefore, should be selling for similar prices retail.
Assuming you're right -- and maybe you are -- how would this be enforced?
 

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Reed, supply and demand....

Don't buy them...let them linger in the stockrooms and then the prices will come down. Look what happened to B&S and Guardala horns. They didn't move and then the prices became VERY reasonable.

There is no shortage of PM horns.

Of course now that I have said that, PM could engineer a shortage to drive up demand and prices- something that Selmer and a few other makers have been known to do.:cool:

Also, a seriously organized letter writing campaign to PM could possibly have some affect. Clearly labor costs are not the driving force in price, considering the source is Taiwan.

I would say greed is the driving force.
 

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Randall said:
...I would say greed is the driving force.
Or to put it in a nicer way, "profit maximization," which public companies are pretty much required to do in exercising their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. But high prices don't necessarily equal high profits. If nobody buys the horns, it's hard to make a profit.
 

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It's the American way, charge as much as the market will bear. I still feel more comfortable spending that kind of money on the big 4, but to each their own. Probably won't be long before Keilwerth goes under, and then PM may be in the big 4!:shock: I still am jonesing for another Shadow alto!
 

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Joe Jazz said:
I still feel more comfortable spending that kind of money on the big 4, but to each their own. Probably won't be long before Keilwerth goes under, and then PM may be in the big 4!:shock: I still am jonesing for another Shadow alto!
I am nearly sure P.Mauriat sales have already surpassed Keilwerth's ones.
Although I am the first to criticize the escalation of their prices, they certainly did several things right, including design (they are the only ones that managed to take to the market a different sounding horn that is not the usual Selmer or Yani copy from Taiwan: like it or not, the sound of the 66R is a distinctive one in the current market), clever marketing and advertising.
Both them and Cannonball understood they had to compete with the "big 4" not just on price, hence the decision to come up with some experimentation also in the look of their instruments. For both brands I believe the better than average look had a strong impact in their success, in particular with younger players. I don't think the big-4 have done much experimentation in the last years, with the possible exception of Yanagisawa with the use of different materials.

I owned a P.Mauriat 66R and presently have a Cannonball Raven (which I prefer): they are both very fine saxophones that I personally prefer to at least 2 of the big 4, Keilwerth and Yamaha. I still think that Selmer and Yanagisawa are better sounding instruments, but only marginally so and probably many will disagree also on this.

The objection "they are made in Taiwan" holds true for the cheaper labor and therefore, in light of the lower manufacturing costs, the customer expects to be "passed on" some of the savings. But don't european-made saxophones have street price almost double the taiwan-made? There is still some unfairness with the japan-made instruments which go for similar prices instead.
If it is meant, instead, that the taiwanese labor cannot be as skilled as the european or japanese ones, here I must certainly disagree and most likely whoever will play the same instruments I tried, will. There is now plenty of repairman who now highly regard the modern taiwanese production: like for the japanese (took some time also to them...), we are approaching the day in which it will be commonly ackowledged that excellent sax production comes from there.

Bottom line is the usual one: shop around (especially with the taiwanese ones!) and don't buy brand new to get the best value for your money. That's another way to fight greed in addition to the strategy suggested by Randall
 

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Pass on the savings???

For the life of me I cannot understand the logic that since they are not a established company or because they are building these saxes in an area of lower labor cost they should pass the savings on to the consumer.

People... they are not in the charity business. I will pay the price if there is value for me. I could care less if they make more profit than other companies.
If the sax is a high quality product and there is a demand for it... they will be able to ask a higher price.

We should be happy there is a high quality alternative to the Big 4. Who knows... if Keilwerth does not take some actions it my be the Big 3.

HUTMO
 
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