[ErikJon]

Dear friends,

As an intermediate-level player (who used to play soprano and tenor exclusively, with Fibracell reeds, but is now dedicating most of his time to alto and cane reeds on all instruments), I am toying with the idea of upgrading from my Graftonite and Metalite alto pieces, to mid-budget alternatives. As the quest can take years, and I don't have that kind of time, I've decided to make a decision soon, and then work around that decision, by trying different tip openings and reed combinations, so that I don't spend the rest of my life trying different mouthpieces, in search of the Holy Grail, particularly since this is supposed to be just a hobby for me, I don't have much money to invest in it, and I am not that good anyway. (If this were my career, I would spend whatever necessary, of course.)

If possible, I wanted to stick to hard rubber or plastic, just for the better overall feel in my mouth.

Just as a little background, I have been trying to get away from old jazz and swing standards, and move toward pop, soft rock, Latin pop, and smooth jazz, since my audiences are younger than they used to be. I play exclusively with pre-recorded mp3 accompaniment, using the set-up described on my "signature" below.

So, when playing tenor, I used to shoot for a Kirk Whalum sound; on soprano, Kenny G; now, on alto, I am intrigued with Warren Hill's style as heard on his album, Truth. I would like to dwell in that realm for a while, before going back to tenor, particularly because of the new challenge of matching that sound and style, as a stepping-stone toward playing for a long time in the pop and soft-rock field.

My Graftonite B7 has been good, but I feel that I sometimes need a little more brightness and edge. Whenever I try the Metalite M7, I get lots of chirping on cane, that I never got on synthetic, so, while it has the high baffle and brightness that I like, I am a bit tired of fighting the chirping. (although I am slowly researching all the possible explanations for chirping, and will continue fighting it.)

I am pretty weak, as it is, with the low notes, so I like a softer reed, when I can. I am also weak on the altissimo, and I've noticed that a harder reed makes it easier to play altissimo, but a high-baffle, brighter mouthpiece makes it even easier still. So low-range and altissimo are two major concenrs (but then, maybe also everyone's concern).

So, yes, I've heard that Warren Hill uses a Vandoren Jumbo Java a45 with a Java 3.0 reed. (I am assuming that it comes in only one tip opening and chamber size?)

I've also heard good things about the Jody Jazz JET (not the Super-Jet), as a brighter alternative to what I have, and brighter than the Jody Jazz HR* itself.

But I have had a Runyon Custom 8 for years, on tenor and soprano, (gradually working my way up from a 6 to a 7 to an 8, as it had been choking up on me at higher volume) but in my development I never got past a Runyon Custom 7 on alto, the little that I played it. I always used the spoiler on both, with Fibracell reeds, although I am now using cane on everything (Rico Royal, La Voz, Orange Box, etc. I will continue my pursuit of the right reed, only after I hone in on the right mouthpiece, but meanwhile I have experimented with strengths on these mentioned, and I've been using 2.0-2.5)

So, before I started trying out these two new mouthpieces mentioned above, I am wondering how they will compare to the Runyon Custom that I already have, but especially on alto.

I am particularly concerned, because of the relationship between Jody Jazz and Runyon Products, and I don't want to end up with an imitation--err, I meant to say "tribute,"--if the Runyon mouthpiece that I have is already very comparable in sound, to the JET. I can't compare until I buy, but perhaps you would be so kind as to share your own personal experiences, in the meantime.

Conclusion: For those of you who have tried two or three of these models, please share your opinion regarding the difference between these three:

1. (Black) Vandoren Jumbo Java a45 (but not the blue vintage model)

2. Runyon Custom

3. Jody Jazz JET (but not Super-JET)

 

[HeavyWeather77]

If I were you I would go straight for the Vandoren for a variety of reasons.

First, Vandoren makes very good mouthpieces consistently, and with good quality control. You'll confidently have a reliable piece of equipment without breaking the bank.

Second, while I've never used a Jumbo Java myself (I don't like high-baffle pieces), I've used the Java without the high baffle and it's been a great piece. I have several friends who have played Jumbo Javas on both alto and tenor and they've sounded fantastic on them. Bright, but not shrill, with a good core of sound. It's a well-designed high-baffle piece with lots of flexibility and room to grow into as you develop as a player.

Third, if you're into Warren Hill's sound, and you go straight for the (very affordable and accessible) mouthpiece he uses, then you won't be left wondering "what if..." – And I normally don't condone that for players who use unobtainable holy grail pieces like a New York Meyer or double-ring Link. But for a name-brand player using an affordable and accessible piece of gear that also has a good reputation through numerous other avenues, it's a safe bet.

As always, it's best to try anything you can before you buy it. But if you're going to buy something sight-unseen, it's hard to make a safer bet than Vandoren, mouthpiece-wise.

 

[J-Moen]

If I were you I would go straight for the Vandoren for a variety of reasons.

First, Vandoren makes very good mouthpieces consistently, and with good quality control. You'll confidently have a reliable piece of equipment without breaking the bank.

Second, while I've never used a Jumbo Java myself (I don't like high-baffle pieces), I've used the Java without the high baffle and it's been a great piece. I have several friends who have played Jumbo Javas on both alto and tenor and they've sounded fantastic on them. Bright, but not shrill, with a good core of sound. It's a well-designed high-baffle piece with lots of flexibility and room to grow into as you develop as a player.

Third, if you're into Warren Hill's sound, and you go straight for the (very affordable and accessible) mouthpiece he uses, then you won't be left wondering "what if..." - And I normally don't condone that for players who use unobtainable holy grail pieces like a New York Meyer or double-ring Link. But for a name-brand player using an affordable and accessible piece of gear that also has a good reputation through numerous other avenues, it's a safe bet.

As always, it's best to try anything you can before you buy it. But if you're going to buy something sight-unseen, it's hard to make a safer bet than Vandoren, mouthpiece-wise.

Yes, +10000000!!!!! Go for the Vandoren - I recommend Vandoren to others all the time and you can't go wrong!

 

[ErikJon]

Very kind of you to share your wise and practical observations. Thank you.

 

[J-Moen]

I will add, having played a Jumbo Java, and JJ Super Jet ( no experience with the Jet), I would take the Jumbo Java. The Super jet was great. I found it very flexible, very loud, bright and edgy! However, the Jumbo Java does all of this just as well - without the price tag.

The only place the Super Jet was a little better was I found it to be more reed friendly, I had trouble with the Jumbo Java with RJS/DJS Reed's and some synthetics. Worked great with Vandoren Javas (red and green).

You can find a used black Jumbo Java for a great price and that's where I would go if I were in your shoes

 

[ErikJon]

Ok. I just ordered a jumbo Java to see how it goes. I'm still curious to know about the Jody Jazz jet however. Thank you for the tips please keep them coming.

 

[J-Moen]

Ok. I just ordered a jumbo Java to see how it goes. I'm still curious to know about the Jody Jazz jet however. Thank you for the tips please keep them coming.

Congrats! Let us know how you like it!

 

[ErikJon]

UPDATE:

JUMBO JAVA A45

I received the A45 and was surprised to see that it had an even HIGHER baffle than the Metalite, (and a slightly curved baffle, rather than flat), consequently, an even brighter sound. On Java Red 2.5 I've been having a hard time hitting the altissimo, but the low notes play well. I've had to move up to harder reeds, and push farther in on the cork, so I am gradually testing harder and harder reeds, by going from Java Red 2.5 to Java V-16 2.5, to Red 3.0, to V-16 3.0, etc.until I find the right balance between altissimo and low-note playability.

I am used to playing everything on softer reeds than other people, so there is also the challenge of getting used to a tighter embouchure, but it is not as bad as I had expected. In fact, the chamber must not be as big as I had feared, because it does not require more air than my Graftonite B7 and Metalite M7, to my pleasant surprise.

There is a tiny bit of a challenge with chirpring, but not as bad as on the Metalite M7, but this was corrected by using different reeds, especially harder reeds, but time will tell whether it works on the A45 because I don't have any reeds harder than V-16 3.0 on hand for testing.

The beak of the mouthpiece seems to be flatter than that of other mouthpieces, or at least not as steep, making it a tiny bit uncomfortable in the mouth, and seems to require that I take a deeper bite in order to I play.

I will say that the edge of the baffle, as it dips down into the chamber, is not perfectly parallel to the tip of the mouthpiece, but close, so it was disappointing to see that the Vandoren craftsmen are not the perfectionists that I had hoped.

I recorded my practice sessions, and will say that the timbre of the mouthpiece itself seems to be a bit more "professional" than what I was hearing from my Metalite and Graftonite, even though my embouchure still needs work, regardless of the mouthpiece. Still, the raw timbre was superior.

Also, it does not seem to require QUITE as much "control" for intonation, as my Runyon Custom 7 does, which was one of my main concerns, going in.

JODY JAZZ JET

I spoke to the manager at Music & Arts, who is a professional saxophone player, and he says that the Jody Jazz JET is very comparable in sound to the A45, based on his own experience. I gather that he meant that there was no need to buy both, as long as I have one or the other.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Awesome! Make sure you spend plenty of time getting used to this one before you get any more mouthpieces, for sure. You should be able to get a very, very good sound out of a Jumbo Java like yours if you spend enough time with it, and moving up a reed strength is a very good idea. A stronger reed is often the ticket to a better sound in the long run, so if this mouthpiece makes it so you can comfortably move up, then that's a very good thing, I think.

 

[Hassles]

A close friend and "excellent" sax player is torn between the Jumbo Java A45 and the Rousseau JDX

 

[ErikJon]

Thank you, HeavyWeather.

Yes, well, as an update, the more I play the A45, the more I feel that it will be too bright for my particular typical small-room playing environments. I am sure that much of that depends on my giving it lots of practice time and choice of reed, to make sure that my conclusion is correct.

Add to that, the fact that I have some tunes that sound better with a darker mouthpiece.

I guess the solution is to have several mouthpieces, and to choose which to use, according to the gig and its environment?

 

[HeavyWeather77]

If you like your Jumbo A45 in general, you might try the non-Jumbo "Java" in the same size. It'll probably take more air support, but that's not a bad thing to develop in the slightest, and you should be able to get a very flexible, versatile sound out of it. Then maybe try switching back and forth. (You could also try the rubber V16, or the D'Addario Select Jazz, just look at charts to find a comparable tip opening.)

Although, to be honest, if you spend enough time on the Jumbo (and use stronger reeds), you can probably get a lot more tonal variety out of it than you might think.

 

[J-Moen]

Thank you, HeavyWeather.

Yes, well, as an update, the more I play the A45, the more I feel that it will be too bright for my particular typical small-room playing environments. I am sure that much of that depends on my giving it lots of practice time and choice of reed, to make sure that my conclusion is correct.

Add to that, the fact that I have some tunes that sound better with a darker mouthpiece.

I guess the solution is to have several mouthpieces, and to choose which to use, according to the gig and its environment?

I would say several mouthpieces is a very bad idea. I use one mouthpiece primarily, and have one other. But most would recommend you get one piece and learn to play it darker/brighter softer/edgier, loud/soft, etc. A regular Vandoren Java would definitely make this easier, but it's possible with the Jumbo java

 

[Bozman]

Thank you, HeavyWeather.

Yes, well, as an update, the more I play the A45, the more I feel that it will be too bright for my particular typical small-room playing environments. I am sure that much of that depends on my giving it lots of practice time and choice of reed, to make sure that my conclusion is correct.

Add to that, the fact that I have some tunes that sound better with a darker mouthpiece.

I guess the solution is to have several mouthpieces, and to choose which to use, according to the gig and its environment?

Contrary to some others experience, I found the Jet to play significantly less bright than the Jumbo. Might be worth a try for you.

 

[soybean]

… the more I play the A45, the more I feel that it will be too bright for my particular typical small-room playing environments.…

I would send back the Jumbo Java and just get the standard Java. The Jumbo will always be too bright.

 

[ErikJon]

I apologize, as always for not responding sooner. Thank you so much for the interesting observations.

Incidentally, I wish I had ordered to A45s at the same time, to compare and determine whether they were truly identical.