[Manoj]

Please help identify this alto saxophone
I really interest it is very near to oldest vintage saxophone also same to adolphe saxophone.but there is not any remarks on the bell or under the thumb rest(even any) saxophone weight is 3kg less than normal alto saxophone.
Please help me to identify this saxophone and tell me is it good or not and price range.I will attached some photos.
Thank you

 

[TrueTone]

Please help identify this alto saxophone
I really interest it is very near to oldest vintage saxophone also same to adolphe saxophone.but there is not any remarks on the bell or under the thumb rest(even any) saxophone weight is 3kg less than normal alto saxophone.
Please help me to identify this saxophone and tell me is it good or not and price range.I will attached some photos.
Thank you

That looks very much like the ones that currently come out of India, mainly because of the LH4 and RH4 key shapes, and the fact that they have rollers-a much later addition than things like a low Bb or other things that are standard now. It's probably high pitch, as they and the clarinets they sell typically are copied from circa 1880-1890 British instruments sold to India then, and HP was very common. And if it was HP, you can't play it with modern low pitched instruments.
My opinion is that looking at a different alto sax would be a better choice than going after that.
(Also on a different note you placed this thread in the wrong subforum, Antigua is a brand name.)
Edit: I see your location says you're in Colombo, the largest city in Sri Lanka; which would also lend credence to my thoughts on that Alto being Indian in origin.
What sort of music are you planning to play with a sax?

 

[Manoj]

oooh so Is that alto saxophone? I really like to play jazz music,is it good for buying for me?How much you value Is it ok?

 

[TrueTone]

oooh so Is that alto saxophone? I really like to play jazz music,is it good for buying for me?How much you value Is it ok?

Correct, although saxophone might be a questionable name for that considering how bad I've been told those can be...
A more fully keyed horn, which would probably also be much better in build quality than that, could be purchased for about 350USD, at least here in the US, I don't know about the prices where you are, but that amount is about 53500 Sri Lankan Rupees. (That price would be around the average for a used Yamaha YAS-23, to be specific. That would be a nice horn to play on and would work just fine for jazz.)
I personally wouldn't pay very much at all for that, as it looks like it needs new pads to play, and those would likely cost more than that is worth.
There are several music stores on the West coast of Sri Lanka, perhaps you could go to one of those and see what saxophones they have? It would likely be a lot more expensive if it was new, though...

 

[greatlakeswinds]

I am 99.99% sure that this "saxophone" is a relatively modern Indian made copy of a pre-1900 English sax (probably a Besson). These pop up every now and then and they always have those obnoxious red rollers, which, as pointed out above, don't jive with anything else about the instrument. To be honest, I don't think these were even meant to be actual playing instruments. From what I gather, they were intended as decorative objects. I had one pass through my hands once that came to me as a package deal with a bunch of other horns from an estate sale picker. He obviously didn't know any better, and I sold it on as a wall hanger/decoration only. The build quality was atrocious! It was extremely crude. In my opinion this could not possibly have been intended for actual use. I'd advise the OP to stay away from this horn bc it will extremely difficult if not completely impossible to make music on.

 

[spike421]

oooh so Is that alto saxophone? I really like to play jazz music,is it good for buying for me?How much you value Is it ok?

No. Based on the quality and condition, it has no value as a playable horn and it would cost way more than it's worth to make it playable, if that's even possible . Save your money and keep looking.

 

[milandro]

see my previous post

This are the dreaded simulacra also know as the Saxophone Shaped Object. Much talked about on SOTW.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?230270-What-is-this-one-!
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?117584-Indian-Saxes
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...entify-this-vintage-sax-no-markings-or-serial
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?149412-Strange-mini-saxophone-with-bright-red-pads-huh
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...ing-sax-but-is-it-a-soprano-or-something-else

I see them regularly ( at least once a month) offered on our Dutch equivalent of craiglist.

They are truly horrible in every possible aspect. Often described as proper saxophones on sites like “ Made in India” (not infrequently using pictures and descriptions which have nothing to do with any of their real product but just lifted from other adverts)


They have been around for much longer than any Chinese Selmer copies and they are regularly sold on line as “ attic found and inherited musical instruments” by people whom claim ignorance of musical instruments (so you can’t complain that they’ve actually sold you something that is only a simulacrum) often at jumble or car boot sales

The same factories regurgitate also other instruments often branded as “ Bessons” and all the same serial number. Often sporting this e trademark

Boosey
Bessons & Co
London W.C.
75983

The serial number is the same for cornets, baritone tuba and “ alto” alike!



There are also clarinets to go with it. Despicable!

 

[Manoj]

hello,
there are helpful pictures in your message.Finally tell me these are not saxophone? and not value?

 

[Alain Gen]

hello,
there are helpful pictures in your message.Finally tell me these are not saxophone? and not value?

They are "saxophones" of course, but very bad ones. They are not well built (on your own pictures, especially #2 and 3, it's obvious that the build quality is very bad) and if you want to have one repaired to work reasonably well, the repairs will be very costly.
Moreover, the keywork is archaic and obsolete and even if you have one repaired, you will still work much harder than necessary to play it: a modern horn (even a cheap Chinese one) would be much easier to play.

 

[milandro]

Value is 0 as musical instruments.

They are not! They are unusable.

I would venture saying that no, they are not a saxophone, they have only the look of a saxophone.

This is what a “ Simulacrum “ is, something made to look like something else but that it is not.

These were made only to deceive or at best to be put on a shelf but they are practically unplayable.

They come with mouthpieces that are laughable. The same goes for the Cornets with the same name (AND Serial number the same for all the instruments!) and the Euphoniums. There are also some bad plastic clarinets too.

EBAY specifically warns agains all of these.

 

[dlrsax]

oooh so Is that alto saxophone? I really like to play jazz music,is it good for buying for me?How much you value Is it ok?

My friend, you need to stay as far away from this as you can get. Just look at your photos - the thing is filthy - it looks like it's been stored in a paint shop, the pads are rotted, some of the touches are missing. It's obvious whoever has it now cares nothing for it and they are looking for someone to pass their troubles to.

Is this a saxophone? Well, around here we call these "SSO"s - "Saxophone Shaped Objects". I wouldn't call this a saxophone, I would be hard pressed to even call it a musical instrument.

What's the value? It's whatever someone would pay you to haul away this trash and dispose of it.

Am I coming on too strong? I just don't want to see you waste time and money on something that is unsuitable.

As others have said, find yourself a nice Yamaha. If you can't afford one of those, I know some nice used Chinese made horns that be had for about $275 US.

 

[TrueTone]

hello,
there are helpful pictures in your message.Finally tell me these are not saxophone? and not value?

Essentially as the people before me said, they're still saxophones, just very bad ones that aren't really worth buying.

 

[milandro]

Not any more than a fake cannon for tourists.

Looks like one but can’t be used like one.

 

[ZootTheSim]

This is what a “ Simulacrum “ is, something made to look like something else but that it is not.

According to Jean Baudrillard, a simulacrum is a copy that has no original, like this sax-shaped-object.

 

[milandro]

one of the two meanings (Oxford Dictionary)

• an unsatisfactory imitation or substitute


spot on

 

[ZootTheSim]

Yep, that's one meaning of the term. But I like Baudrillard's (admittedly paradoxical) definition because it raises the question of just what is being imitated, if anything. In other words, is this a poorly executed replica of an identifiable horn, meant to confuse or cheat some hapless buyer? Or was it executed as some other kind of object entirely, one that never really tried to correspond closely to any original at all?

 

[Rackety Sax]

Yep, that's one meaning of the term. But I like Baudrillard's (admittedly paradoxical) definition because it raises the question of just what is being imitated, if anything. In other words, is this a poorly executed replica of an identifiable horn, meant to confuse or cheat some hapless buyer? Or was it executed as some other kind of object entirely, one that never really tried to correspond closely to any original at all?

Excellent double-whammy thread hijack - a tip of the hat-inspired simulacrum to you.

 

[ZootTheSim]

Thanks Rackety, it wasn't easy! You might consider my post a rephrasing*of the original question of identification, one that troubles the notion of identity itself.

 

[Hadamard]

Not any more than a fake cannon for tourists.

Looks like one but can’t be used like one.

I can't help but wonder what a good tech could make of it. I doubt that anyone in his right mind will pay for a full overhaul and do a recording of it, but it will be curious.

 

[Nordbo]

Stephen Howard did a review of one of these:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/misc/black_museum.htm

Scroll about halfway down

\Bo