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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please explain the “adjustable” front F

This is a question about the WO series but I believe it may be the same adjustment on the 9xx horns. What exactly does this adjustment do and how is it accessed? I looked at the Yanagisawa website but the photo is very small and they don’t explain how to adjust this.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

Is this not a feature on all modern horns? There is a lil’ slider that is adjusted via a set screw that regulates how much lift is provided by the front F key.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

It's a better setup than the previous versions which required you to have (often quite a bit of) lost motion if you wanted the pad to just crack open.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

The inherent problem in that design and the one Selmer uses that has a sliding "barrel" is that you have two levers with opposing fulcrums. This means when you are shortening one by moving the connecting apparatus, you are lengthening the other at the same time. The result is that there is not much of a change in the opening of the F key when the adjusting barrel is moved completely from one side to the other. There is a solution, and that is to put a curvature into the lever coming from the F palm key.

A related problem when adjusting the front F to open the F palm key just a small amount to help the altissimo G and other notes is ending up with a great deal of lost motion. I solved that problem on a Cannonball saxophone by filing a "valley" into the underside of the key as shown in the picture.

Front F mod 3.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

Thanks for your responses everybody. I get it now. I'm having difficulty getting used to the front F on the WO1. My finger gets caught in the gap between the front F and the 'B' key. On my other horns this is a small gap, but on the Yani it feels huge.
 

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Never noticed that. Looking at my TWO1 right now.

Phat phingers keep that from being a problem for me.

dsm
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

Thanks for your responses everybody. I get it now. I'm having difficulty getting used to the front F on the WO1. My finger gets caught in the gap between the front F and the 'B' key. On my other horns this is a small gap, but on the Yani it feels huge.
I'll have to agree with this. When the B key is depressed, the leading edge of the front F is way up in the air, making it tricky to roll onto the front F. This is a small flaw in the usually unimpeachable Yanagiswawa ergonomics. Previous Yany designs were better.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

I'll have to agree with this. When the B key is depressed, the leading edge of the front F is way up in the air, making it tricky to roll onto the front F. This is a small flaw in the usually unimpeachable Yanagiswawa ergonomics. Previous Yany designs were better.

The touchpiece can (and should) be adjusted by a judicious bending. Do it yourself or have it done by a tech.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

I'll have to agree with this. When the B key is depressed, the leading edge of the front F is way up in the air, making it tricky to roll onto the front F. This is a small flaw in the usually unimpeachable Yanagiswawa ergonomics. Previous Yany designs were better.
This raises the question of where the front F key is in relation to the B key when it is open. The front F needs to allow the B key its full opening and so cannot be in contact with the key with no "lost motion". Even in the best possible adjustment, the front F is going to be considerably higher that the first finger when the B key is closed.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

This raises the question of where the front F key is in relation to the B key when it is open. The front F needs to allow the B key its full opening and so cannot be in contact with the key with no "lost motion". Even in the best possible adjustment, the front F is going to be considerably higher that the first finger when the B key is closed.
Right, but this is where the shape of the front F key becomes a factor. The Yany WO design is thin and flat at the front; it then tapers upward. The result is a key that feels very comfortable when you place your finger down on it squarely, but that is difficult to roll onto from below, because your finger first encounters a sharp edge rather than a curved surface. The front of the key needs to be somewhat bulbous so that the index finger can exert pressure on it from a low angle and also slide upward easily. This is why the modern "teardrop" front F designs generally work much better than the old button-style pearl front F keys, IMO. The Yany WO front F is a modern, shaped key design that unfortunately resurrects a weakness of the button design.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

This raises the question of where the front F key is in relation to the B key when it is open. The front F needs to allow the B key its full opening and so cannot be in contact with the key with no "lost motion". Even in the best possible adjustment, the front F is going to be considerably higher that the first finger when the B key is closed.
If one were highly motivated, I expect you could design a mounting of the front F spatula, actually ON the "B key", so when you close the B fingering, the front F spatula moves down with it. Then (and this would work because generally you only want the front F to crack the pad), the travel of the front F spatula would be fairly small. I have thought a bit about this because I want a front F key on my bass sax but due to weird key layout it's not a simple slam dunk like it would be on the average alto or tenor.

The thing is, 99+ % of us manage well enough to get our finger up on the front F, so there's not the drive to design such a thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

The touchpiece can (and should) be adjusted by a judicious bending. Do it yourself or have it done by a tech.
I’m going to try some heavy duty bending tomorrow with my tech. Wish me luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

OK guys. My tech was able to do some bending and adjusting to make the front F much more comfortable. Now it also comes down when the first-finger ‘B’ is pressed. I would say it’s 80% better and I am very happy!

By the way, we also bent the side B-flat and side C for more comfort. Both of these keys pads don’t open enough from the factory.
 

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Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

OK guys. My tech was able to do some bending and adjusting to make the front F much more comfortable. Now it also comes down when the first-finger ‘B’ is pressed. I would say it’s 80% better and I am very happy!
Cool. Could you perhaps post a photo of the modification? Others of us with WO1s might want to emulate it.

By the way, we also bent the side B-flat and side C for more comfort. Both of these keys pads don’t open enough from the factory.
I don't understand this one. Was the issue ergonomics, or tuning?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Please explain the “adjustable” front F

LostConn, I don’t have any photos but I think I can describe what he did. He moved the leverage point (screw) all the way back (to the right). Then, cut the felt in half. He made a single bend to lower the front F. This results in the front F that having some “play” in it. That might bother some players, but certainly doesn’t bother me. Now the front F follows the B key down when the B key is pressed. (A good thing.)
 
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