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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an app that plays chord progressions and I just like to practice soloing over 4-5 repeating chords.
I'm generally ok transposing the major keys progressions (over F play Dmajor scale etc)

But they also have minor key progressions in the same key maybe like Fm - Bbm - Cm.

I can't quite work out how to transpose those into the right key?
For majors I count 6 steps up, for minors???
 

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Transpositions of roots are the same for major or minor (I'm guessing you're playing alto) so F major concert is D major for alto...F minor concert is D minor for alto. Is that what you're asking?
 

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Dave gave the answer, above ^^ regarding transposing.

However, are you having problems understanding the difference between a major key and a minor key? Fmaj and Fmin share the same root or tonic center (F), so the transposition to your alto is the same. However, Fmin is different from Fmaj in that it is minor, not major. Is that part of what you are asking? Your question is not entirely clear.
 

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I agree the question is not entirely clear, and I wonder if the issue might stem from the different scales or chord tones being used while soloing over minor chords. eg, 1235 for major and 1b345 for minor chords?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Transpositions of roots are the same for major or minor (I'm guessing you're playing alto) so F major concert is D major for alto...F minor concert is D minor for alto. Is that what you're asking?
Yes alto.
Sorry if it confuses, its hard to get my point across without the exact terminology I know.

The chords I'm playing against are in the key of fminor, but what key is that on the sax to play? I ended playing in cmajor against it and it mostly worked, but randomly playing around trying to find the right scale is tiring.

For major keys I have a chart I made , so if the tune is in C I can look at the chart "Ah I play in A major over this tune."

As you say, fminor is dminor for alto but what dminor is that from.? as there is a dminor in the keys of F and C and Bb.
 

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As you say, fminor is dminor for alto but what dminor is that from.? as there is a dminor in the keys of F and C and Bb.
Seems like you are overthinking this. Yes there are chords of D minor in each of those major keys. But they are minor chords in a major chord progression because you are in a major key.

All you need do is just take the root of the scale or chord (major or minor) and transpose up a 6th

On alto:

C major = A major
C minor = A minor

F minor = D minor
F major = D major

etc...

There may be some confusion over terminology.

A progression (as mentioned in the thread subject) is a series of chords.

A progression is either major or minor depending on the key that the progression is in.

So you can have a major progression or a m minor progression.

major progression e.g. C major could be D min7 - G7 - C.

minor progression e.g C minor could be Ab maj7 - G7 - C minor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Seems like you are overthinking this. Yes there are chords of D minor in each of those major keys. But they are minor chords in a major chord progression because you are in a major key.

All you need do is just take the root of the scale or chord (major or minor) and transpose up a 6th

On alto:

C major = A major
C minor = A minor

F minor = D minor
F major = D major

etc...

There may be some confusion over terminology.

A progression (as mentioned in the thread subject) is a series of chords.

A progression is either major or minor depending on the key that the progression is in.

So you can have a major progression or a m minor progression.

major progression e.g. C major could be D min7 - G7 - C.

minor progression e.g C minor could be Ab maj7 - G7 - C minor.

thanks this makes it much clearer.
I've written out a chart of minor scales for reference now.
 

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thanks this makes it much clearer.
I've written out a chart of minor scales for reference now.
Great.

It's probably a good idea to look at the chord sequences of a couple of tunes. The complication is that many standards and jazz tunes can go from one key to another even within the key signature of the the tune. We call these key centres. and they are often defined by a dominant chord.

Autumn Leaves:



The first 4 bars are in Bb (defend by the F7 - Bb) and the next four bars are in G minor (defend by the D7 to Gm)

See: https://tamingthesaxophone.com/jazz-analysis

However, this may be jumping the gun, work on some simpler stuff, I just mentioned that because it will crop up and confuse you if you don't know it happens!
 

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I don't get it yet. Normal progression is 145. Is it the same in a minor? so in C its c f g, but in Am its a d e?
We tend to use roman numerals for chord progression n umbers sop I'd recommend getting used to that.

When you say "normal progression" I think you mean common progression. (Sorry for appearing pedantic but it actually helps to get the terminology correct)


So yes, I IV V is a common basic progression.

In C major that is C - F - G7. (with more complex four note chords it is Cmaj7 Fmaj7 G7)

In A minor it would be Amin - Dmin- E7.

Note that these are basic but there will be variations, especially with blues, e.g you could have C7 F7 G7 (all dominants to sound more bluesy)
 

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major progression e.g. C major could be D min7 - G7 - C.

minor progression e.g C minor could be Ab maj7 - G7 - C minor.
+1. Just to follow up a bit, to put those in Roman numerals shows the relationships to the key center:

in C maj: D min7 - G7 - C = II min7 - V7 - I

in C min: Ab maj7 - G7 - C minor = bVI maj7 - V7 - I min (for ex, "The Thrill is Gone")

Another common progression in C minor is: D min7b5 - G7 - I min = II min7b5 - V7 - I min

starry, just to simplify a bit, keep in mind that what makes it minor is the b3, either in the scale or the chord. Other tones in a scale or chord can, & often are, also flatted (the 7th, 6th, etc), but it's the b3 that gives it the minor quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Great.

It's probably a good idea to look at the chord sequences of a couple of tunes. The complication is that many standards and jazz tunes can go from one key to another even within the key signature of the the tune. We call these key centres. and they are often defined by a dominant chord.

Autumn Leaves:



The first 4 bars are in Bb (defend by the F7 - Bb) and the next four bars are in G minor (defend by the D7 to Gm)

See: https://tamingthesaxophone.com/jazz-analysis

However, this may be jumping the gun, work on some simpler stuff, I just mentioned that because it will crop up and confuse you if you don't know it happens!
Thanks, its always good to know new things.
Played the dminor over the f tonight its sounding good, I just need a place far away where I can really play as I'd like to.. :D

I've used your site a lot already to learn from, its a very good resource.
 

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Played the dminor over the f tonight its sounding good..
I'm not sure what you mean by this. As Pete mentioned, terminology is important in order to communicate clearly. When you say "playing the D minor," do you mean playing a D minor chord arpeggio, or a D minor scale, or in the key of D minor? Those are clearly related, but separate things. And "over the F" means what? Over the note F? Over some sort of F chord? Are you still talking about transposing?
 

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Sometimes it’s the question, rather than the answer, which is unknowable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm not sure what you mean by this. As Pete mentioned, terminology is important in order to communicate clearly. When you say "playing the D minor," do you mean playing a D minor chord arpeggio, or a D minor scale, or in the key of D minor? Those are clearly related, but separate things. And "over the F" means what? Over the note F? Over some sort of F chord? Are you still talking about transposing?
Hi yes dminor scale over the fminor progression.
 

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Hi yes dminor scale over the fminor progression.
D minor has an A natural, it will probably not sound good over the Ab of the F minor

BTW what are the chords in the F minor progression you are referring to?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
D minor has an A natural, it will probably not sound good over the Ab of the F minor

BTW what are the choerds in the F minor progression you are referring to?
My mistake it was fmajor key, and i was playing dmajor scale,this heatwave is getting to me...
Sorry for confusion.

The fminor chords were F Ab Db Cm
 

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My mistake it was fmajor key, and i was playing dmajor scale,
Still not good as D major has F# which won’t sound good on F scale (major or minor)

EDIT: OK, got it, you were comparing concert pitch of chords with alto pitch. You should always make it clear, or else talk in just one or the other (concert or trasnposed) or it can get very confusing for people.
 

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Pete, in post 6 you showed that if a tuner hears a fmaj, on alto you play a Dmaj. Is that correct?
Secondly, you show "In A minor it would be Amin - Dmin- E7." So to play a minor progession, its Imin, IVmin, Vmaj?
 

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Starry- you need to talk in 1 key, not transpose back and forth. You say "My mistake it was fmajor key, and i was playing dmajor scale,this heatwave is getting to me...
Sorry for confusion.

Are you saying that the CONCERT key was F major, so you're play ALTO D major scale?

If so, yes that's fine...it's just the transposition from Concert to Alto.
 
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