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hi guys, im actually a guitar player, and this is the problem im facing reently.. i havent been learning jazz all that long, and im starting to play in all 12 keys, i know all the modes, and im practing them all all up the neck, so if i play in C i know were every note is because i know were all the modes are, but my problem is now that i do that it seems like the modes are just differnt positions for the same scale, and instead of being fluent with D dorian , it sounds like c major, doesnt have that dorian feel. i just have trouble getting the mode to be the mode and not making it sound like its parent scale..

any tips?
 

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Bonsoir,

I guess emphasizing chord tones of the scale / mode would do the trick, wouldn't it?

Victor.
 

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garbageman007 said:
hi guys, im actually a guitar player, and this is the problem im facing reently.. i havent been learning jazz all that long, and im starting to play in all 12 keys, i know all the modes, and im practing them all all up the neck, so if i play in C i know were every note is because i know were all the modes are, but my problem is now that i do that it seems like the modes are just differnt positions for the same scale, and instead of being fluent with D dorian , it sounds like c major, doesnt have that dorian feel. i just have trouble getting the mode to be the mode and not making it sound like its parent scale..

any tips?
I would like to think you are taking the ****, Mr Garbage, but I fear you are in deadly earnest. This is SAXontheweb. I believe our sister site GUITARonthweb may be better suited to your enquiry. The issues of "positions" on guitar are quite obviously different from those involved in playing the same scales on a saxophone. To give you a simple response: D Dorian Chord DFA, C Major Chord CEG. Yours truly.. (And seriously, best of luck.).;)
 

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Dude, theory is universal. No need to be an elitist.

GarbageMan, your problem may be that since your not accustomed to mode playing, you're associating everything to the major chord. Get a play-a-long or just play a Dm7 chord before you play the scale and learn to aurally associate the sound of the scale to the sound of the chord.

And try playing D dorian without prefacing it with with the C major scale. That way, you learn the sound of the scale without associating it to the C major scale.
 

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Accentuate the notes that give the dorian mode it's "minor" tonality, for a D dorian those wopuld be the F and C. Try not to start your lines on the C. It's really a mental thing, you have to think in Dorian only, not Dorian in relation to the Major scale (that makes sense in my head, but doesn't sound very good in a sentence).
 

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Read again what saxymanzach said. You want to emphasize the 3rd & 7th of the chord (in this case it's a minor third & minor seventh of the root, D). Also "think" in terms of the root, which for D Dorian is D, not C. And of course, use the Dmin7 chord, not Cmaj. You are playing a chord instrument, after all.
 

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going around

Practice runs and scales in the cycle of fifths. It really makes you get all the keys down. For instance,play the "bebop scale" in time, key of C,F,Bb,etc. It's sorta fun,too.
 

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I think garbage is searching for modes here - sounds like he's got the major keys down already.

I've been thinking of it this way - If I've got a Dorian or Mix chord and I want to fit that - then I gravitate toward the chord tones - and that does it - if I'm imrovising a melody and have something in mind - I worry more about fitting in the major scale through that bar - and worry about the minor chord less - although it is there if I want that quality in my melody. It really depends on where I am going. I find I can play a major over a minor and vice versa - it just depends on the sound I am going for.

However having said that - I regularly go around the cycle of fourths in Dorian and Mix - this will get your thoughts together. The arpegios may be the most helpful to get the chord tones in your head. If you can hear them in your head then you will be able to play them. (This is something I've been working on recently).

Good luck
 

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hgrail said:
- I regularly go around the cycle of fourths in Dorian and Mix - this will get your thoughts together. The arpegios may be the most helpful to get the chord tones in your head. If you can hear them in your head then you will be able to play them. (This is something I've been working on recently).

Good luck
This is really a good way to go. I especially like going around the cycle with dominant chords/scales (mixolydian), starting on different chord tones. Actually I mainly work from the 3rd & 7th chord tones, since they really sound the chord. Also, with dom chords, the 3rd is only a half step away from the b7th of the next chord in the cycle. For example, moving from C7 to F7, you can play E to Eb. Also, you can spell each chord in turn, dropping a half step on the starting chord tone.

Try spelling the chords in a downward direction:

C7--play E C Bb G (descending)
F7--play Eb C A F
Bb7--play D Bb Ab F
Eb7--play Db Bb G Eb
etc

Once you have the arpeggios well in hand, you can start adding more notes from the scale and even chromatic passing tones (like the maj7th for the bebop scale).

I realize this is mixo mode, not dorian, but the same principle applies for all the modes. You just have to vary the patterns to fit the chords.
 

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All the above, and treat C as an avoid tone until it "fades" into the rest of the mode that you're doing.
 
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