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saxophone, flutes and lil' bit of clarinet
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
93BA521D-FB7C-40BD-974A-C44EFA2ADFD6.jpeg BD2D8A27-EB0B-41CD-8E15-A0B9B957A989.jpeg 2DA869B0-3A9D-40FD-B6CF-9E53A4D66737.jpeg

I thought you guys might be interested in this old business card and post card from long ago. This was found in a case from a forgotten saxophonist.
 

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Mr. G. H. Tieck shows up in early L.A. city directories under musical instrument repairs. I came across him while researching whether Malcolm Gregory ever made mouthpieces as part of "his own" business. In this blog at picture #4, Tieck is listed, M.C. Gregory isn't, however, Gregory's employer (Rico Products) is listed as the producer of mouthpieces.

Mark
 

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TENOR, soprano, alto, baritone
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I guess its simply tinted lacquer. Funny, but Selmer also termed it 'Gold Lacquer'. In 1963 the Selmer salesman told me the lacquer 'has gold in it' which is of course ridiculous. The lacquer is actually kind of orange - the polished brass under it helps it look 'gold'.
 

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Well, I think the main point here was the stripping off of the plating and polishing the horns and then lacquering. The lacquer may or may not have had a goldish tint when applied.

I remember back in the early 70s there was still a stigma to silver plated horns, which was never stated directly, but was present.

Saxophone finishes are just as subject to fads and fashions as anything else, as witness the explosion of black horns in the 90s which now appears to have subsided.

Personally I think the silver plating is the best of the older finishes for durability, though I have read that modern two part "lacquers" (actually, probably some sort of epoxy) can last as long.
 

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Has anybody had any success with tinting new lacquer to match vintage "gold" lacquer? I have a Conn Tranny that a prior tech (or player) had roasted the lacquer on a key cup when replacing a pad. Cleaned up and re-lacquered, it has a lighter tint than the other key cups and is noticeable (to me). I have tried leather dye (dark red) and iodine, both of which gives the right look until they are cleaned off. Then, the key goes back to it's original color even though my fingers stay tinted for a week. I haven't tried heat during dye application for fear that if the dye took it wouldn't be even. I also haven't tried applying the dye first and then spraying. It's always possible to make it look worse. Any suggestions?

Mark 100_1286.JPG
 

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Has anybody had any success with tinting new lacquer to match vintage "gold" lacquer? I have a Conn Tranny that a prior tech (or player) had roasted the lacquer on a key cup when replacing a pad. Cleaned up and re-lacquered, it has a lighter tint than the other key cups and is noticeable (to me). I have tried leather dye (dark red) and iodine, both of which gives the right look until they are cleaned off. Then, the key goes back to it's original color even though my fingers stay tinted for a week. I haven't tried heat during dye application for fear that if the dye took it wouldn't be even. I also haven't tried applying the dye first and then spraying. It's always possible to make it look worse. Any suggestions?

Mark View attachment 222778
Ferree's used to make a gold tint to add to lacquer - do they still have it? Evidently you could add different amounts for different tints...
 

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Has anybody had any success with tinting new lacquer to match vintage "gold" lacquer? I have a Conn Tranny that a prior tech (or player) had roasted the lacquer on a key cup when replacing a pad. Cleaned up and re-lacquered, it has a lighter tint than the other key cups and is noticeable (to me). I have tried leather dye (dark red) and iodine, both of which gives the right look until they are cleaned off. Then, the key goes back to it's original color even though my fingers stay tinted for a week. I haven't tried heat during dye application for fear that if the dye took it wouldn't be even. I also haven't tried applying the dye first and then spraying. It's always possible to make it look worse. Any suggestions?

Mark
This may sound stupid but have you tried a Nail Salon? Some of the "artists" are incredibly good when it comes to small work like this and it may be just a matter of finding the right one.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
saxophone, flutes and lil' bit of clarinet
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, I think the main point here was the stripping off of the plating and polishing the horns and then lacquering. The lacquer may or may not have had a goldish tint when applied.
What I find interesting is the use of the word “burnished”. Does that indicate some kind of heat treatment during the "lacquering"?
 

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Has anybody had any success with tinting new lacquer to match vintage "gold" lacquer? I have a Conn Tranny that a prior tech (or player) had roasted the lacquer on a key cup when replacing a pad. Cleaned up and re-lacquered, it has a lighter tint than the other key cups and is noticeable (to me). I have tried leather dye (dark red) and iodine, both of which gives the right look until they are cleaned off. Then, the key goes back to it's original color even though my fingers stay tinted for a week. I haven't tried heat during dye application for fear that if the dye took it wouldn't be even. I also haven't tried applying the dye first and then spraying. It's always possible to make it look worse. Any suggestions?

Mark View attachment 222778
Mark,
The shop I used to work at experimented with wood stains added to the lacquer. They relacquered a super balanced action tenor neck that matched the original horn exactly. Later I believe they did a whole SBA tenor and had...was it Sherry somebody? I think she retired. Engraved through the lacquer over the original Selmer Elkhart engraving. It was drop dead gorgeous that original greenish brown tint some get.
 

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Has anybody had any success with tinting new lacquer to match vintage "gold" lacquer? I have a Conn Tranny that a prior tech (or player) had roasted the lacquer on a key cup when replacing a pad. Cleaned up and re-lacquered, it has a lighter tint than the other key cups and is noticeable (to me). I have tried leather dye (dark red) and iodine, both of which gives the right look until they are cleaned off. Then, the key goes back to it's original color even though my fingers stay tinted for a week. I haven't tried heat during dye application for fear that if the dye took it wouldn't be even. I also haven't tried applying the dye first and then spraying. It's always possible to make it look worse. Any suggestions?

Mark
John Uttech at Musical Brass Repair Service who is highly skilled at buffing and lacquering does an excellent job of tinting lacquer to match a given shade. I might add that working with colored lacquer is more difficult due to the fact that any variation in the thickness of the coat shows up in the color of the finish. As a repair tech I have had good success matching individual parts that have had to be buffed such as key guards and guard feet to the original darker gold finish by either boiling them in water which darkens the color or by using Jax Gold Finish. The parts are then given a couple of coats of Nikolas Clear Lacquer. Nikolas makes a gold tinted lacquer but it often takes many coats to produce the darker gold finish you are after.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
saxophone, flutes and lil' bit of clarinet
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Getting back to my question about "burnishing" as used by George Tieck, I found this online:

Burnishing is a process applied to wood after the final coat of lacquer is allowed to dry. Burnishing is the blending of wood fibers together with lacquer to achieve a high-gloss finish. Burnishing was a popular technique used by old-world craftsmen but not typically found in today's woodworking because of the time incurred and the extra step needed to complete the project. Burnishing is done by hand; also known as a hand-rubbed finish, it offers an incomparable finish if you have the time.

Could Tieck have been using a similar process on the lacquering he did? Mixing fibers with the lacquer to make it stronger and more glossy?
 
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