[jicaino]

Hey! just got in the shop a PB Classic tenor, new horn that suffered a less than ideal handling during shipping and the bridge post that holds together the left pinky keys got slightly bent leaving the rods loose. So I had the chance of inspecting a new horn as it comes out the case, it had all of the packing wedges on.

Fisrt impression: case
Nice looking case, well balanced, latches are a little "odd" in function, like too hard to snap open (not that anyone would want a latch that pops out open just by looking at it!) 4 latches, very securely holding the case shut. Comes with a pro quality MPC by Phil. No other modern horn I've ever seen comes with a MPC that you could actually use. It's a 7* facing.

Packing:
Good packing, it must have had a heck of a fall or something to knock that post off alignment.

After I finished putting it together, here's my opinion

Key fitting: excellent. Couldn't find a single key with slop or play
Springs: nice blued springs. on the long side, wich makes for
Action: snappy, responsive, without being hard.
Hardware quality: excellent pivot point screws, nice rod screws, no "grinder touchup" as seen on more than one asian maker. Rollers don't rattle or add noise. Pearls are really nice and the shape is just right, not overly concaved, wich causes a little fingertip discomfort. Has regulators for the stack combination keys.
Finish: vintage bare brass (like brushed) with nicely executed engraving all over the main body and neck. I don't like engravings that extend this much, but that's me.
Pads: nice, firm pads. SA80II style resonators. Leather seemed to be of extra nice quality.
Keyboard layout: Very friendly. I play vintage horns and most of the time you have a "lag" djusting to a newer mechanism design, but this horn felt right from the second note I played.
Tone: Big, warm, with a good balance between focus and spread. MPC friendly too.
Intonation: locked on without being "dead" or "stuffy" like many modern "doctored up intonation" horns. Using a link and a neutral embochure I had to do no negotiations whatsoever to get a perfect response in intonation. Yet you could bend, raise and lower each note if you desire to do so.
What I didn't like: strap ring position, I'm a big guy and I like my strap rings lower and closer tho the side Bb tone hole so the horn would hang neutral and natural and you don't have to fight against it trying to rotate in the opposite way I need it to be. Also I didn't like the right pinky keys shape, visually. They looked a little big reminding me of a VII tenor that had an awful RH pinky table, but this one (the PB) is nothing like that function wise. RH pinky friendly. I had a little trouble with the high F# key touch, it sits a little higher for my taste (but that's the same with all high F# horns for me) Phil does say that he can get you a no high F# horn if you want it.

General comments: great horn, and not "great horn for the money". Period. It has a good setup, it has nice bumper and regulation materials, good hardware, it feels solid and it's inviting to play. Comes with a good case (I don't like latched cases and I don't like storing stuff under the horn) and a pro grade piece. Shouldn't this horn have sustained in transit damage I don't think the player would have had to think about getting this horn to a shop. Action is tight, silent, fast, everything worked as dialed in. The wedges were a little hard to get off under the pants guard, not because they were wedged in too far, but because you cannot access that area (that's the idea of a pants guard, anyway)

EDIT: I would beef up the bridge post that holds them left hand pinky table keys together, like a U shaped thing with feet on both sides of the horn (I don't know if this is clear for the average reader, this post I'm referring to has 1 foot and 4 pivot screw "heads", I would put another foot on the other side so it would be held in place by 2 points)

Disclaimer(s):
No affiliation.
I'm a tech and my specialty is all things related to machine work and mechanism. "good hardware" is a compliment, a big time one, coming from me. The only thing that I would "change" is that some of the side keys and palm key rods are a little bit sunk into the post, I like them to be faced perfectly, but I find that fault in nearly every horn I didn't make the rods to fit.
I'm an all my life vintage horn player, yet I had no trouble with too locked up an intonation or too unresponsive a tone or...

 

[Tony5175]

I'm saving up for a Barone soprano. Can't wait until I have enough!

 

[koumou]

Two months ago I took delivery of a PB Vintage tenor.It had similar damage to the one you fixed, there was 2mm gap between the bridge and the rods. I live on an island and there's no tech near by, so I do minor adjustments and repairs myself. I straightened the bridge and also fixed leaks on low Bb,B, C and D. The last one was the most difficult to fix as the pad had a leak at the rear. I think the bridge design needs redesigning. Mine was bent even though it has the extra bracket not found on the classic. In general I am pleased with the sax.I find it's more mouthpiece friendly, and I like the sound more than the sound of my YTS62ii.

 

[tomsch]

I have a BP Classic tenor that also suffered the exact same damage in shipping. I have to wonder if the case somehow causes the specific damage if pressure is applied to the side.

In any case (sic), the horn continues to amaze me! The flexibility is astounding and will cover pretty much any style.

 

[Call Me Rockstar]

Hmm, could be something to look into- given that I have heard the same in other threads. I wonder if the case internals have an area that has been built up too much and are not accomidating the horn? It could be that in conjunction with the horn having too much "side-to-side" play. It only takes a 1/4" of play and repeated motion to knock stuff out of alignment!

 

[jicaino]

Well I've recorded a side by side comparision between my main tenor, the Buescher 400 TH&C and the PB Classic. Here is it:

I was a little hesitant about recording a soundclip cmparing them because you are limited to appreciate my limited playing skills but I do think there's some use to hearing the same guy playing 2 different horns.

I do think that these horns are definitely worth getting one, now I'm torn between the Vintage and the Classic... but I could sell one of my backups and get a vintage and a classic! they're definitely one of the best value/product ratios out there. I'd compare the Classic to a good Reference 54 and the Vintage to a good Ref 36.
The keywork is slick and quiet, one of the best fits I've seen on any "out of the case" horn with no setup required. It also feels solid and well built, not "half baked" as I've felt about Mauriats (at least the ones I've inspected personally)

I hope this is of use for the community.

 

[drwhippet]

How much is he paying you? LOL

 

[jicaino]

How much is he paying you?

Man I missed you. Did you get that 400 th&C tenor? I bet you're sounding like a basoon now. :bluewink:

 

[drwhippet]

Man I missed you. Did you get that 400 th&C tenor? I bet you're sounding like a basoon now. :bluewink:

No, I passed, but they still say I sound like a bassoon.

You know, I'll be damned if that Barone doesn't sound pretty good.

 

[Dr G]

Bassoons aside, that (either horn in Juan's face) is what a tenor should sound like!

I dig your tone.

 

[saxguy007]

Nice playing man! I don't see why you're putting a disqualifier in there. You obviously have the chops to generate a quality tone, that enables a fair playtest. I think the Buescher sounded mellow and a bit sweeter, while the Barone had more in-your-face "guts." Of course, you sounded like you on both horns, which is a good thing.

P.S. So glad to see someone just show his face in one of these vids. C'mon, it's not like you're testifying against the Crips or something....

 

[stormott77]

You sound great on both horns. I played my classic next to a 54 and I found the Barone to be a little bigger sounding and the 54 was a little more delicate sounding.

 

[mike713]

Both horns sounded great but I preferred the Buescher, it sounded fuller and more colourful. The Barone was nice too but a bit more clean and open/hollow-sounding to me.

Man, describing tone requires a strange vocabulary.

 

[GT]

When I hear someone like Juan describe his "limited playing skills", I know there's no hope for me!

Both horns sound great, my friend!

 

[rsclosson]

I was a little hesitant about recording a soundclip cmparing them because you are limited to appreciate my limited playing skills but I do think there's some use to hearing the same guy playing 2 different horns.

Limited playing my eye!! :salute:

 

[koumou]

Nice playing. Personally I prefer your sound on the Buescher, but that I think is understandable since you have been playing that horn all your life. I have the PB Vintage which sounds closer to the Buescher than the classic. Don't get me wrong though, I said I prefer the Buescher sound which does not mean I don't like the classic.

Thanks for posting the clip.

 

[jicaino]

Bassoons aside, that (either horn in Juan's face) is what a tenor should sound like!
I dig your tone.

Thanks Geo!

Nice playing man! I don't see why you're putting a disqualifier in there. You obviously have the chops to generate a quality tone, that enables a fair playtest. I think the Buescher sounded mellow and a bit sweeter, while the Barone had more in-your-face "guts." Of course, you sounded like you on both horns, which is a good thing.
P.S. So glad to see someone just show his face in one of these vids. C'mon, it's not like you're testifying against the Crips or something....

Not a disqualifier, last reality check I had I'm no "top shelf" material. I like my tone, I wish I would have invested serious time and resources having pro chops.
And the vid, I showed up face because anybody can see if you're biting or overadjusting your throat while playing, it's sort of a good way to show you're not doing things to suit your mind bias while playing.

You sound great on both horns. I played my classic next to a 54 and I found the Barone to be a little bigger sounding and the 54 was a little more delicate sounding.

Agree, the french tenors are more delicate (as in thin and nervous) I used the 54/36 comparision to illustrate the differences between the Classic/Vintage from Phil Barone.

Both horns sounded great but I preferred the Buescher, it sounded fuller and more colourful. The Barone was nice too but a bit more clean and open/hollow-sounding to me.
Man, describing tone requires a strange vocabulary.

It's a tricky business indeed... The barone has better "definition" if you will, like it "cuts cleaner" the notes.

When I hear someone like Juan describe his "limited playing skills", I know there's no hope for me!
Both horns sound great, my friend!

Thanks man, we all have hope, it ain't like anyone of us can have fun and achieve satisfaction playing. That's the good thing about the saxophone, an instrument so friendly that anybody can enjoy at whatever level one is on at that particular moment.

Limited playing my eye!! :salute:

:mrgreen:

Nice playing. Personally I prefer your sound on the Buescher, but that I think is understandable since you have been playing that horn all your life. I have the PB Vintage which sounds closer to the Buescher than the classic. Don't get me wrong though, I said I prefer the Buescher sound which does not mean I don't like the classic.
Thanks for posting the clip.

I think I prefer the Vintage too, but the classic is a good horn. I didn't hve the vintage long enough to think about playing it side by side (and record) with my horn.

Thanks for the nice comments guys.

now I'm going to ask phil for a raise :twisted:

 

[silvin]

Great tenor sound on both!
I also seem to prefere the Buescher: more rich, more flexible, more lively ...

 

[High Fly]

Great sound on both by the player.... but yes a more "nervous" (!?! Ive never head that one before) sound on the Classic. Esp in the upper registers, it sounds more like the metal of the horn and less like the fiber of the human...OMG! is there a poet in the [email protected]?

You know, its a sound that some want and others don't. I would go with the Buescher every time. Its more expressive to me. More dimension and less "egotistical" ....wow, now I've never heard that one before either!

 

[saxphil]

Nice playing Juan.

Buescher - full and sweet.

Barone Classic - hollow sounding, in comparison.

Glad the Barone I bought in '07 is not the Classic.