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Problem with F & F is: it's risky for 2 reasons: 1) already explained, it violates PayPal policy; although I don't believe they will boot you if you get busted just once. 2) If something goes south in the transaction, buyer has no recourse to dispute the transaction; however, if the buyer is vindictive (or the seller was a real scumbag), he/she could rat out the seller.

Things could get ugly.

I will never say "pay me via F&F". I HAVE had buyers offer to do it that way, in which case I have gladly accepted, actually. But I think they know at this point I am reputable and thus the risk factor is quite small.

I see no problem with DOMESTIC Cahsier's check, Postal MO, or Personal Check...as long as seller waits requisite # of days re: the latter, before shipping.

International transactions would have to be via Paypal, as far as I am concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Problem with F & F is: it's risky for 2 reasons: 1) already explained, it violates PayPal policy; although I don't believe they will boot you if you get busted just once. 2) If something goes south in the transaction, buyer has no recourse to dispute the transaction; however, if the buyer is vindictive (or the seller was a real scumbag), he/she could rat out the seller.

Things could get ugly.

I will never say "pay me via F&F". I HAVE had buyers offer to do it that way, in which case I have gladly accepted, actually. But I think they know at this point I am reputable and thus the risk factor is quite small.

I see no problem with DOMESTIC Cahsier's check, Postal MO, or Personal Check...as long as seller waits requisite # of days re: the latter, before shipping.

International transactions would have to be via Paypal, as far as I am concerned.
What if the buyer lives in another country but has a bank account in the country where the seller lives? I wonder if a cheque would be less risky in this case?
 

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I recently got singed (not completely burnt) on an international transaction where the seller specifically asked for "PayPal F & F." I probably should have taken this as a warning sign. The item was not as described, the seller was in Europe, and I had paid him by F&F.

That said, personal checks pose risks, too, as spelled out above.
 

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What if the buyer lives in another country but has a bank account in the country where the seller lives? I wonder if a cheque would be less risky in this case?
If the check is drawn on a bank which is in the same country as you, then I wouldn't consider it more risky...but I still would tell him/her you cannot ship item for 7 calendar days after check is deposited....
 

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I have known people get their PayPal account suspended or closed due to abuse such as using F & F for commercial transactions.

In answer to the OP, then yes if you trust the buyer you can accept a cheque. Or bank transfer. or cash.

My preference is to have diamonds deposited into a locker at Waterloo station.
St. Pancras.
 

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I have used Paypal F & F when requested but I always pay the 3% charge to put it on a credit card rather than let them debit my bank account for free. At least then if things aren't as they seem I can contest the charge through my credit card company. It may not work but it does offer some peace of mind.
 

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I have used Paypal F & F when requested but I always pay the 3% charge to put it on a credit card rather than let them debit my bank account for free. At least then if things aren't as they seem I can contest the charge through my credit card company. It may not work but it does offer some peace of mind.
I doubt whether that will protect you. You should review the terms of your credit card agreement carefully. From the point of view of the bank that issued the card, the merchant with which it is dealing in a F&F transaction is probably just PayPal, not the horn seller. PayPal's only obligation to you is to deliver your payment as directed. As long as PayPal has done that, the credit card bank probably won't care about the actions of the recipient of the money.
 

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I always pick up expensive items in person, and pay face to face (cash). Sending a saxophone or clarinet by mail (combined with the crappy insurance being offered) would make me very uncomfortable. Of course, I live in the Netherlands, where the population density is much higher than in most parts of the USA, so there are many shops, instrument traders, and musicians within two hours driving from me.
 

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I doubt whether that will protect you. You should review the terms of your credit card agreement carefully. From the point of view of the bank that issued the card, the merchant with which it is dealing in a F&F transaction is probably just PayPal, not the horn seller. PayPal's only obligation to you is to deliver your payment as directed. As long as PayPal has done that, the credit card bank probably won't care about the actions of the recipient of the money.
I believe this is true. The credit card guarantee will not apply when used though PayPal unless PayPal is purely a transaction gateway which is not the case with f & f as it appears as no commercial transaction took place.

Can you imagine the phone call with the card company "I used PayPal fraudulently and it all went wrong, please will you compensate me"
 

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Cash in hand on the spot is all that could possibly pass the SOTW mob.
They'll whinge about PayPal f&f personal cheque and most anything else unless they are the seller.
Then suddenly it's fine to say personal cheque, money order, PayPal f&f or whatever.
Get your crap together or don't comment as many are contradicting themselves here.
 

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I do not contradict myself never yet sometimes.

Certainly not here.

So there.

Do I have my crap together?

Did I comment?

What is the frequency, Kenneth!

WHAT IS THE FREQUENCY!!??
 

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I like the convenience and (relative) safety of paypal. I don't mind paying any minor fees involved in the least. Back to the OP's question, if you want to go with a check, I'd simply say use a cashier's check if it's a domestic transaction (I didn't realize there was an issue with international cashiers check, so that's good to know). For international, use paypal and don't worry about a minor fee. There's a reason for those fees. You can't expect a service (paypal) to always be 100% free.
 

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I have used Paypal F & F when requested but I always pay the 3% charge to put it on a credit card rather than let them debit my bank account for free. At least then if things aren't as they seem I can contest the charge through my credit card company. It may not work but it does offer some peace of mind.
I doubt whether that will protect you. You should review the terms of your credit card agreement carefully. From the point of view of the bank that issued the card, the merchant with which it is dealing in a F&F transaction is probably just PayPal, not the horn seller. PayPal's only obligation to you is to deliver your payment as directed. As long as PayPal has done that, the credit card bank probably won't care about the actions of the recipient of the money.
Actually using a credit card as the funding source DOES provide some sort of safety net....this isn't a bad idea actually.

Can you imagine the phone call with the card company "I used PayPal fraudulently and it all went wrong, please will you compensate me"
Mmmmmmm...disagree. The credit card charge can be disputed (BEST way: tell CC bank that the charge was unauthorized...your teenage kid used your credit card or something).
This will result in a chargeback case commencing via the cred card co., not via Paypal. This sort of claim has nothing to do with the 'recipients' actions; nor does the 'true' purpose of the payment ever really come into play ~ the card holder is simply claiming the card was used without his/her consent - which is a valid grounds for disputing the charge for 90% of cards.
In this instance...Paypal is only a spectator...they can provide info to bank, but they have no decision-making power in whether chargeback is honored.
If it is, then you'd at least get your $ back...not sure what would happen on the recipient's end, but who cares really ?

Not a bad idea.
 

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There's pretty much a zero percent chance of getting caught with Paypal F&F, unless you actually sent some kind of note or had some prior record of transactions. It's the safest for the seller, buyer has to act on faith.

Cashier's checks may take much longer than a week to be completely "clear" and it's hard to know when especially if it's an international transaction (30 days would be safe but that'd be too long for most buyers). The money will be available after a day or three, but until the money actually transfers from the buyer's bank to yours, it's an open question. Moreover, if you ask the bank teller if it's "cleared" they'll say yes, without realizing you're asking whether the funds have actually went through. Too much hassle/potential for trouble, and I think it goes for checks/cashier's checks/money order.

Wire transfer would be a safe bet too. But Paypal is ideal for ease of transaction.
 

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There's pretty much a zero percent chance of getting caught with Paypal F&F, unless you actually sent some kind of note or had some prior record of transactions. It's the safest for the seller, buyer has to act on faith.
Well as noted by others...a number of ways to get 'caught' using F & F...the most obvious being: buyer gets horn, does not feel it is as-described, contacts seller. Seller really, really feels he is in the right, says 'sorry, I disagree'.

Buyer gets pissy, contacts PayPal and tells 'em seller REQUESTED payment for the item be made via F & F. Rats out seller for requesting/accepting F & F for a merchant transaction, basically. Seller in trouble (buyer too but probably not a suspension of account as buyer is playing dumb/naive).

Other way around. Buyer sends F & F. A week later receives a box with 6 bricks in it. Buyer has zero recourse.....goes to Paypal and complains, Paypal says 'this was an F & F, you are in trouble and on top of that...there's no dispute or return policy in play here because you violated our terms".

As you say, F & F can be used purely in an instance where you have utter faith in seller....
 

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Actually using a credit card as the funding source DOES provide some sort of safety net....this isn't a bad idea actually.

Mmmmmmm...disagree. The credit card charge can be disputed (BEST way: tell CC bank that the charge was unauthorized...your teenage kid used your credit card or something).
This will result in a chargeback case commencing via the cred card co., not via Paypal. This sort of claim has nothing to do with the 'recipients' actions; nor does the 'true' purpose of the payment ever really come into play ~ the card holder is simply claiming the card was used without his/her consent - which is a valid grounds for disputing the charge for 90% of cards.
In this instance...Paypal is only a spectator...they can provide info to bank, but they have no decision-making power in whether chargeback is honored.
If it is, then you'd at least get your $ back...not sure what would happen on the recipient's end, but who cares really ?

Not a bad idea.
Not a bad idea? It's called fraud. If you want to risk compounding your problems beyond the lost price of a saxophone, sure, that's the way to go. Sending a forged check drawn on someone else's account also would offer this kind of "protection."
 

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I have many friends here on SOTW ( a few enemies too), no family though.

Is there enemies and family option too?
frenemies might work. And , who says 'family' aren't necessarily enemies? I ve never had a problem with a cheque. I have had problems with PAyPal, especially if you tie it to your bank account. Wire transfer is best for the seller. Regular PayPal is best for the buyer.
 

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I believe this is true. The credit card guarantee will not apply when used though PayPal unless PayPal is purely a transaction gateway which is not the case with f & f as it appears as no commercial transaction took place.

Can you imagine the phone call with the card company "I used PayPal fraudulently and it all went wrong, please will you compensate me"
Pay Pal does not allow F&F option to use a card.
 
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